I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it
The Christian life is about denying scriptures so as to obey Love, uncondtionally .
- Thread starter Gurucam
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I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it
You cannot find anything wrong with my posts except this one in this thread.
Your judgment needs adjustment.
Choleric
New member
I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it
Who said we were smarter than those men? We just are smart enough to believe what God said and not twist it to say what we think God meant to say.
We are, in that sense, much more wise than those men.
:rotfl:
You'd be Catholic, praising Mary right now saying. That's your 'wise' for you
Choleric
New member
:rotfl:
You'd be Catholic, praising Mary right now saying. That's your 'wise' for you
I'm sorry, that was incoherent. Can you clarify?
The Reformers are the reason you are not Catholic right now. They are the ones who perpetuated the idea of the public having Bibles :doh:
You are not wiser, you are a ~product~
Choleric
New member
The Reformers are the reason you are not Catholic right now. They are the ones who perpetuated the idea of the public having Bibles :doh:
You are not wiser, you are a ~product~
I think you are conflating issues. Nobody said we aren't thankful for the reformers, we just don't think they went far enough from Rome.
And now that we have an English bible, it is our duty and responsibility to read and understand the scriptures for ourselves, as that is how we will stand before God, by ourselves. While I may read and learn from Luther and Calvin, I also reject out of hand any "interpretation" that says "all" isn't all or that "whosoever" doesn't mean anybody and that "whole world" doesn't mean the people in it.
Calvins TULIP is a dead flower that is rifled with error. I appreciate men like Spurgeon and can even enjoy listening to some moder calvinists preach, but I just think calvinism, particularly the "L" is a satanic heresy that was born out of "hath God said".
Reformed doctrine is called so because it is refined and improved. It is the reverting back from the centuries of heresy that laid within Christianity- the Early Christians were Calvinistic. The biblical authors were Calvinistic.
Your theology hasn't done anything but lace heresy all through Christianity, because you all are not taking facts into consideration while interpreting- God is immutable and omniscient- therefore you are simply wrong.
Choleric
New member
That is patently false. Calvinism is a theological invention of a man called calvin, perhaps you've heard of him. The biblical authors preached and exhorted others to believe. paul said, "we beseech you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to GOd." That is not calvinistic nor are several dozen other such passages.
Biblical Christianity has been around since Pentecost. That is why we are not "protestants". We predate and ran alongside the heresies of Rome and have stepped over calvinism and any other heretical systematic theology that has wandered into the "hath God said" market.
Yours is indeed refined, but it is still a lie, conceived by satan. He has you thinking you are exalting God's sovereignty and has you believing that is more important than believing God is just. While the devil has you exalting God with one hand, you are putting a stumbling block at the feet of the lost and making the modern church lazy.
We bible believers just believe what we read, as a child, and take GOd at His word. You are playing in the garden with satan who has you thinking "hath God said whosoever?" "Hath God said believe?" "Hath God said all?"
Epoisses
New member
I find you all thinking you're smarter than John Calvin or St. Augustine to be adorable. It's like watching a puppy chew on a bone and never getting into it
Let's get into the meat then, pick a point and let's go. I love to chew up Calvinists and spit them out.
Epoisses
New member
Calvinism makes God the author of sin. That's not an improvement it's heresy.
Aletheiophile
New member
What if it's not about who's on the ship (Calvinism) or convincing people to get on the ship (Arminianism) but the ship itself? Maybe there's a larger scope of time and timelessness that is beyond either two-dimension view of God's sovereignty? Some food for thought...
As pertains the OP, it's based on the presupposition of a modern idea of love. Before we can even answer the question, love has to be defined.
The Greek word for Christian love Agape (mind you, not original to the Greek but borrowed from Hebrew, because it is not a worldly fleshly knowledge) means the benevolent directive of the will to do what is best for a person, not necessarily what they desire. The modern English concept of love is unique to this generation, a devolvement into a pathetic, subjective, selfish affectation towards others. It may think that it is demonstrating agape, but the motivations and methods are most certainly according to the diseased condition of the soul, not the Grace of God.
What a person needs is always Christ, always His righteousness, always His holiness. The Law is the very distribution of God's righteousness, whether manifest in the written commandments or upon the heart in the new covenant. Thus the very nature of love cannot break the commandments of God. It is not about the codification of do-don'ts, but about the righteousness manifest in the teaching (Torah) and distribution (Nomos) of God.
As pertains the OP, it's based on the presupposition of a modern idea of love. Before we can even answer the question, love has to be defined.
The Greek word for Christian love Agape (mind you, not original to the Greek but borrowed from Hebrew, because it is not a worldly fleshly knowledge) means the benevolent directive of the will to do what is best for a person, not necessarily what they desire. The modern English concept of love is unique to this generation, a devolvement into a pathetic, subjective, selfish affectation towards others. It may think that it is demonstrating agape, but the motivations and methods are most certainly according to the diseased condition of the soul, not the Grace of God.
What a person needs is always Christ, always His righteousness, always His holiness. The Law is the very distribution of God's righteousness, whether manifest in the written commandments or upon the heart in the new covenant. Thus the very nature of love cannot break the commandments of God. It is not about the codification of do-don'ts, but about the righteousness manifest in the teaching (Torah) and distribution (Nomos) of God.
All mankind was sentenced to hell. All is totally depraved. Calvin got that right
Epoisses
New member
And all mankind is declared righteous 'in Christ'. Every single human being deserves to go to heaven because all their sins have been blotted out by the blood of Christ. Thus there are two possible destinies for every human being. God simply knows our destiny before we were born. Calvin got that wrong.
Calvin is right that God created a hell for a reason.
You are making up your own thing under the false belief that you are some how saved and delivered automatically.
Matthew 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Jesus died only for the few who follow him)
Matthew 7 King James Version (KJV)
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 22 KJV N.T.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
Jesus did not die for all.
At all events only a few are or will be, saved and chosen. At least a billion are called Christians. Jesus' prophesy is that the very great masses of these are totally misled and lost. They are not chosen. Christ has benefited them nothing. They still esteem the law.
Galatians: 5 KJV N.T.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
James: 2 KJV N.T.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jesus did not die for those foolish people (traditional Christians) who use the law of sin and death in the lest way. You are corrupting the word of God.
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
People who use the law of sin and death in the least way are the dead. They are a debtor to uphold all the laws perfectly. Those who esteem and/or use the law in the least have denied and defy 'Christ Jesus'. Jesus did not die for them. They are the dead who are burying their dead. Jesus did not die for 'the dead who bury their dead'. Jesus died for those who choose to follow him:
Matthew 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Those who promote the the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments) as a part of Christianity (or a guide for Christians) are false spying brethren. They are false prophets who came in Jesus' name:
Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
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Epoisses,
Jesus is always separating sheep people from goat people and he is sending sheep people to heaven and goat people to hell. He did not die for goats.
Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jesus divides all people into the right side and left side then, He sends those on his left side to hell. He certainly did not die for those hardened people who he sends to hell. And He certainly does not love those people.
Do you actually believe that Jesus died for those on the left side who he told: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels',
It is no done deal. Everyone is not automatically saved and delivered. With respect to salvation and deliverance, the Lord Jesus and God are very picky (selective). So picky they are that: from the billion or so called to be Christians only a few are chosen.
Do you know why, according to the Lord Jesus, only a few are chosen? The very great majority of those called Christians have been misled by false prophets.
Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
The billion or so people in traditional Christianity are not the chosen few. They cannot be the few who are chosen. Whether wittingly or not, these billion or so people have gone about their own righteousness and abandon God's righteousness.
Romans 10 King James Version (KJV)
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
They are like you. They erroneously believe that salvation and deliverance is a done deal. This is in total denial of the Lord Jesus Who clearly confirmed that, only those who do will of God enters God's heaven.
Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
You guys are the dead who are burying each other with your false false beliefs and false slogans.
Fact is you have to do things in order to be saved and delivered. It is no done deal. While you live on earth, you have to actually discern and actually do the real time will of the living God. God has a precise and individual will for you. You have to discern this will within your own heart or spirit. Then you must do this will in order to be saved and delivered:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
If you do not discern the will of God within your own heart and do not do these specific things, you are dead in your waters (you will be among the dead who are burying their dead). You are not and will not be chosen:
Jesus is always separating sheep people from goat people and he is sending sheep people to heaven and goat people to hell. He did not die for goats.
Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jesus divides all people into the right side and left side then, He sends those on his left side to hell. He certainly did not die for those hardened people who he sends to hell. And He certainly does not love those people.
Do you actually believe that Jesus died for those on the left side who he told: 'Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels',
It is no done deal. Everyone is not automatically saved and delivered. With respect to salvation and deliverance, the Lord Jesus and God are very picky (selective). So picky they are that: from the billion or so called to be Christians only a few are chosen.
Do you know why, according to the Lord Jesus, only a few are chosen? The very great majority of those called Christians have been misled by false prophets.
Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
The billion or so people in traditional Christianity are not the chosen few. They cannot be the few who are chosen. Whether wittingly or not, these billion or so people have gone about their own righteousness and abandon God's righteousness.
Romans 10 King James Version (KJV)
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
They are like you. They erroneously believe that salvation and deliverance is a done deal. This is in total denial of the Lord Jesus Who clearly confirmed that, only those who do will of God enters God's heaven.
Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
You guys are the dead who are burying each other with your false false beliefs and false slogans.
Fact is you have to do things in order to be saved and delivered. It is no done deal. While you live on earth, you have to actually discern and actually do the real time will of the living God. God has a precise and individual will for you. You have to discern this will within your own heart or spirit. Then you must do this will in order to be saved and delivered:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
If you do not discern the will of God within your own heart and do not do these specific things, you are dead in your waters (you will be among the dead who are burying their dead). You are not and will not be chosen:
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Epoisses,
Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven equals works.
Doing the will of God is some works which you must do to enter God's kingdom of heaven. You have better get cracking (and do that works) if you wish to escape that bad and dark place where death prevails. Those who tell you different are false brethren, spies and false prophets who came in Jesus' name.
Therefore you better find out quickly how to get on the right side and try to get there quickly. Time is very limited. Fact is straight is the gate and narrow the way to life and few (not many and not all) there be that find it. It is not at all a done deal, where all are saved and delivered. Far from it.
There are many false prophets who will pretend to be Christians. They will go undetected. They will do any thing to deny you the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
They are spies whose loyalty is to the law of sin and death and not to the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
They will not accept that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made one free from the law of sin and death. They will not accept that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus comes with God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin but instead be glorified by God.
These false brethren-spies will not want you to have the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes you free from the law of sin and death.
They become spies. They come as leaders, priests, elders, etc. in Christian churches and Christian denominations, so as to return Christians to (or keep them in) bondage and death under the law of sin and death:
Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Being spies, they operate within what passes for Christianity everywhere and they are misleading the very great majority of people who seek to be Christians. This is the reality. They are leaders of traditional Christianity. They are not Christians. These leaders are false spying brethren. They are Satan operatives simply masquerading as Christian priests and Christian leaders.
They are preaching the law of sin and death and promoting false slogans in the name of Christianity. They are not preaching that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made one free from the the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments).
They are misguiding multitudes of unsuspecting humans, who are simply seeking to be authentic Christians. They are leading these unsuspecting and unfortunate traditional Christians into err and false sense of security, simply to bring them into servitude to Satan. Traditional Christians are not Christians. They are simply called to be Christians. However they are totally misled by false prophets, from within their own churches.
Some of these false and spy prophets may be unwitting. They are certainly 'the dead'. And at all events they are all very dangerous. Please beware.
Your statement is totally erroneous. It comes from false spying prophets. Your statement is simply, attempted flattery and bribery of Jesus. It can and would count for nothing. You are parroting 'lord lord you are god and you died for all and all are saved and delivered'. Instead, you should be actively doing the real time will of the living God.
Your statement is a total corruption of the KJV N.T. It is simply a false platitude to Jesus. According to the Lord Jesus, if you want to enter God's kingdom of heaven, that is exactly what you must not do. Only actually doing the real time will of the living God can deliver you into God's kingdom of heaven.
Matthews: 7 KJV N.T.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven equals works.
Doing the will of God is some works which you must do to enter God's kingdom of heaven. You have better get cracking (and do that works) if you wish to escape that bad and dark place where death prevails. Those who tell you different are false brethren, spies and false prophets who came in Jesus' name.
Therefore you better find out quickly how to get on the right side and try to get there quickly. Time is very limited. Fact is straight is the gate and narrow the way to life and few (not many and not all) there be that find it. It is not at all a done deal, where all are saved and delivered. Far from it.
There are many false prophets who will pretend to be Christians. They will go undetected. They will do any thing to deny you the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
They are spies whose loyalty is to the law of sin and death and not to the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes one free from the law of sin and death:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
They will not accept that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made one free from the law of sin and death. They will not accept that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus comes with God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law of sin and death and get no sin but instead be glorified by God.
These false brethren-spies will not want you to have the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which makes you free from the law of sin and death.
They become spies. They come as leaders, priests, elders, etc. in Christian churches and Christian denominations, so as to return Christians to (or keep them in) bondage and death under the law of sin and death:
Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Being spies, they operate within what passes for Christianity everywhere and they are misleading the very great majority of people who seek to be Christians. This is the reality. They are leaders of traditional Christianity. They are not Christians. These leaders are false spying brethren. They are Satan operatives simply masquerading as Christian priests and Christian leaders.
They are preaching the law of sin and death and promoting false slogans in the name of Christianity. They are not preaching that the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made one free from the the law of sin and death (i.e. the ten commandments).
They are misguiding multitudes of unsuspecting humans, who are simply seeking to be authentic Christians. They are leading these unsuspecting and unfortunate traditional Christians into err and false sense of security, simply to bring them into servitude to Satan. Traditional Christians are not Christians. They are simply called to be Christians. However they are totally misled by false prophets, from within their own churches.
Some of these false and spy prophets may be unwitting. They are certainly 'the dead'. And at all events they are all very dangerous. Please beware.
Your statement is totally erroneous. It comes from false spying prophets. Your statement is simply, attempted flattery and bribery of Jesus. It can and would count for nothing. You are parroting 'lord lord you are god and you died for all and all are saved and delivered'. Instead, you should be actively doing the real time will of the living God.
Your statement is a total corruption of the KJV N.T. It is simply a false platitude to Jesus. According to the Lord Jesus, if you want to enter God's kingdom of heaven, that is exactly what you must not do. Only actually doing the real time will of the living God can deliver you into God's kingdom of heaven.
Epoisses,
At any event your statement: 'God loves all people because he created all people and died for all people' is ludicrous. God never died.
Epoisses, your priest/pastor seems to be a Satan operative. Your priest/pastor seem to be misguiding you so that you err and serve the Satanic class and eventually end up with Satan in the under world. Your priest/pastor seems to be recruiting for Satan.
Drop your priest/pastor. He or she is 'killething' you.
The very least that you can do is to read the verses before the ones which mention the left side and right side division which the Lord makes. Re. Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.. There, in plain language, you will find out about works that you must do in order to be on the right or chosen side, of the Lord Jesus.
The revelation tell a story of those who sat on their behind. They lost everything. Jesus instructed, 'take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents'. They were on the left side and were dispatched to hell.
On the other hand, those who did the required works were praised and gained entry into God's kingdom of heaven.
At any event your statement: 'God loves all people because he created all people and died for all people' is ludicrous. God never died.
Epoisses, your priest/pastor seems to be a Satan operative. Your priest/pastor seem to be misguiding you so that you err and serve the Satanic class and eventually end up with Satan in the under world. Your priest/pastor seems to be recruiting for Satan.
Drop your priest/pastor. He or she is 'killething' you.
The very least that you can do is to read the verses before the ones which mention the left side and right side division which the Lord makes. Re. Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.. There, in plain language, you will find out about works that you must do in order to be on the right or chosen side, of the Lord Jesus.
The revelation tell a story of those who sat on their behind. They lost everything. Jesus instructed, 'take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents'. They were on the left side and were dispatched to hell.
On the other hand, those who did the required works were praised and gained entry into God's kingdom of heaven.