Swine Sausage - Sin?

[chrysostom]

Yes, we do that each year just as he said.

we do it every sunday

some do it every day

 

[jamie]

we do it every sunday

some do it every day

Passover is a memorial observed annually on the night that begins the seven day feast of Passover. Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me."

Passover pictures Jesus' death as the Lamb of God.

 

[jamie]

Mark 14:12-17 KJV
12. And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover...

Why did Mark refer to the 14th as the first day of unleavened bread?

 

[chrysostom]

Passover is a memorial observed annually on the night that begins the seven day feast of Passover. Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me."

Passover pictures Jesus' death as the Lamb of God.

this is the passage
and
it is very clear as to what Jesus is referring to

Luke 22:19King James Version (KJV)

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

 

[iouae]

Why did Mark refer to the 14th as the first day of unleavened bread?

Because part of the Day of Preparation was cleaning out all leaven or breadcrumbs. From the end of the 14th, beginning of 15th they only ate unleavened bread for a week. So they ate only unleavened bread at Passover with the Passover lamb. Still does not negate the killing. The term "kill the Passover" was so well understood, they did not even say "kill the Passover lamb".

The Feast of Passover and Feast of Unleavened bread are used interchangeably.

Deut 16

4 And there shall be no leavened bread seen with thee in all thy coast seven days; neither shall there any thing of the flesh, which thou sacrificedst the first day at even, remain all night until the morning.

 

[JonahofAkron]

Disagree. Peter would not have thought gentiles receiving the Spirit of God would have been possible. Because you agree on the gentile point, it may be of little consequence, other than as it pertains to the assumptions we bring to the scriptures in understanding them. Such could have agreements even though our systems for understanding and interpreting those scriptures aren't in sync.


Thanks again. In Him -Lon

Fair. Agreed. I hope to find those agreements with you.

Can you expound a bit, especially as it is spot on with the OP, I'm thinking. Thanks.

Understandable. I think that one of the crucial pieces of information for understanding how the early Church interacted with the Torah is what is written in 1 John: he makes claims about laws that seem only to come from someone that believes they are still part of the lives of those who love God and believe that Messiah is who He says He is. I don't know how to reconcile that thought process with what James says of works and the believer. No question, that is difficult.

None taken but your sensitivities and compassion is appreciated and I'm humbled. Thank you.

Yes, but such is to be emulated rather than copied. They actually had the 'right' teaching but 'did' it wrong. We have to be careful on several fronts: First not to think what was expected of one is expected of another. Example: I have different expectations and observances between my daughters and my sons. I expect my son, for instance, to assist more with the muscles God has given him.

I, too, am humbled. Thank you.


The expectations, if we can call them that (though, I don't know how we couldn't), are certainly different and are fairly clearly spelled out in Torah.

Second, Christ is the end of a LOT of Jewish observance, especially as it relates as a picture of Christ as they observed and were supposed to anticipate His coming.

His coming as the Object that casts the shadow does not eliminate the shadow-or, for a better analogy, the things that the schoolmaster taught those that love God is not did not eliminate the teaching of the schoolmaster; it brought it into new light.

Third, many of their commands were only, and specifically for them. We'd sin, if we went after Philistines today as gentiles.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Please clarify for me.

Fourth, we have to ever remember that Jews had the orthodoxy, but were blowing it in orthopraxy. We shouldn't emulate that, even when/if there is any mutuality between Jew and gentile. I 'think' it better to discover Christianity through gentile eyes, as gentiles. Adding and trying to discern Jewish custom/practice, and grafting-in, over-complicates what really needs to be basic and New Testament for young believers.

I could not agree more. I think that's what James aims to do in the 4 prohibitions of Acts 15-why else the statement about Moses being preached every Sabbath?

I encourage new believers not to read the OT until they have read their NT 5 times through (some exceptions such as Genesis and Psalms etc.). Again, opinion, up to disagreement and scrutiny.

Not a shared opinion, but one I can certainly understand. I think that without the Tanach, you do not have the full concept of the need for a Savior or how God would send one.

I try and pray for who I am debating with. I'm not sure I'm always great at communication, but at least I know, if inept, that it is covered in prayer and His sovereign graces. That He may be lifted up, and that we might all be edified in Him, -Lon

I'm trying to live like that, but mostly I end up being sarcastic and rude. I'm praying for change and for others....God has worked on me and has much to chisel away. I've been in a rough place for a couple of years. Of my own choosing, naturally.

 

[jamie]

Because part of the Day of Preparation was cleaning out all leaven or breadcrumbs.

This is exactly what Jesus did in the spiritual sense, leaven being a type for sin.

However, Jesus did not violate the Law of Moses by observing the date of Passover contrary to the date specified through Moses by the Holy Spirit.

On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD’s Passover. (Leviticus 23:5 NKJV)​

Jesus instituted a NT Passover observance ahead of time because he was going to be out of pocket on the night specified in Leviticus.

 

[iouae]

This is exactly what Jesus did in the spiritual sense, leaven being a type for sin.

However, Jesus did not violate the Law of Moses by observing the date of Passover contrary to the date specified through Moses by the Holy Spirit.

On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD’s Passover. (Leviticus 23:5 NKJV)​

Jesus instituted a NT Passover observance ahead of time because he was going to be out of pocket on the night specified in Leviticus.

Maybe the Jews calendar was wrong.
I say definitely it was wrong, a day late.

Do you know that Jews have "postponements" whereby they delay the correct day to make High Days not fall close to a Sabbath?

 

[jamie]

Maybe the Jews calendar was wrong.
I say definitely it was wrong, a day late.

Do you know that Jews have "postponements" whereby they delay the correct day to make High Days not fall close to a Sabbath?

Are you thinking Jesus did not know the correct date?

 

[iouae]

Are you thinking Jesus did not know the correct date?

I said He kept it on the right date, they were wrong.

 

[jamie]

I said He kept it on the right date, they were wrong.

Who was wrong? Were the NT writers inspired by the Holy Spirit wrong?

 

[Lon]

I think that one of the crucial pieces of information for understanding how the early Church interacted with the Torah is what is written in 1 John: he makes claims about laws that seem only to come from someone that believes they are still part of the lives of those who love God and believe that Messiah is who He says He is. I don't know how to reconcile that thought process with what James says of works and the believer. No question, that is difficult.

I yet think this can be expounded as it relates to Jewish practice and gentile's eating habits. I'm still not exactly sure without the specific scripture references and a bit of expansion, but as it is yet part of this thread, directly, I'd invite you to present a post specifically on it. As to James, I believe James is saying "works accompany salvation" not "works maintain salvation." I think all he is saying is, in a nutshell "if works aren't happening, what is God doing in you? Is He doing anything in you? If not, worry."

I'm not sure if that touches on your concerns....

The expectations, if we can call them that (though, I don't know how we couldn't), are certainly different and are fairly clearly spelled out in Torah. His coming as the Object that casts the shadow does not eliminate the shadow-or, for a better analogy, the things that the schoolmaster taught those that love God is not did not eliminate the teaching of the schoolmaster; it brought it into new light.

I included this here, because it quickly leads into your question and our difference:

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Please clarify for me.

If today, I went to Israel and started helping them clear out their neighbors, I'd be wrong. That applied ONLY to Israel at that time. We don't uncritically adopt the 'shadow' wholesale and Jews would be wrong and in fact be rejecting Christ in sin, if they tried reinitiating animal sacrifice.

Not a shared opinion, but one I can certainly understand. I think that without the Tanach, you do not have the full concept of the need for a Savior or how God would send one.

I didn't say 'not read it' but rather read their NT first. However, I did say it was up to scrutiny.... :Z

 

[iouae]

Who was wrong? Were the NT writers inspired by the Holy Spirit wrong?

There are many theories why Christ kept Passover before the Jews, but 4 times scripture says he kept a passover, and it was a day before the majority of Jews kept a passover.

 

[JonahofAkron]

I yet think this can be expounded as it relates to Jewish practice and gentile's eating habits. I'm still not exactly sure without the specific scripture references and a bit of expansion, but as it is yet part of this thread, directly, I'd invite you to present a post specifically on it. As to James, I believe James is saying "works accompany salvation" not "works maintain salvation." I think all he is saying is, in a nutshell "if works aren't happening, what is God doing in you? Is He doing anything in you? If not, worry."

I may have to do that. Could you ask me some questions to get that answer ball rolling? I'm wondering what concerns need the most specific attention.

I'm not sure if that touches on your concerns....

It does.

I included this here, because it quickly leads into your question and our difference:


If today, I went to Israel and started helping them clear out their neighbors, I'd be wrong. That applied ONLY to Israel at that time. We don't uncritically adopt the 'shadow' wholesale and Jews would be wrong and in fact be rejecting Christ in sin, if they tried reinitiating animal sacrifice.

Understood. I think that needs to be a separate thread: What laws would be applicable after the sacrifice of Messiah? Some of them are certainly not applicable given our atoned state.

I didn't say 'not read it' but rather read their NT first. However, I did say it was up to scrutiny.... :Z

Sorry. That sounded like I was saying that 'you' was specific to you, but I meant it in the general 'you' sense. I was just voicing a concern of lacking the appropriate basis for study of the New Testament; when we study it outside of the context of the Tanach, we create a foundation that can negate some of the theology of the Tanach. Not to mention, the metaphors used in the New Testament find their typography in the Tanach-without the first, we cannot decipher the second. I also think that in a very logical sense, to start a complete work towards the end is a little less than appealing, although this work could give proper substance and meaning through the Spirit if any point of it was read.

 

[achduke]

There are many theories why Christ kept Passover before the Jews, but 4 times scripture says he kept a passover, and it was a day before the majority of Jews kept a passover.

He had dinner early night on the 14th and then died on the day of the 14th aka the preparation day.

Notice in Matthew 27:62 He is already dead which is the next day.


Mat 27:62 On the next day, which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,

 

[jamie]

There are many theories why Christ kept Passover before the Jews, but 4 times scripture says he kept a passover, and it was a day before the majority of Jews kept a passover.

Jesus did not violate the Law of God given through Moses. He kept "this" Passover, not "that" Passover as he was instructed to do.

Jesus is our Passover instead of an animal.

 

[chrysostom]

Jesus is our Passover instead of an animal.

what does that mean in plain english?

 

[Ben Masada]

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:19-20 NKJV)​

Jesus instituted the new Passover symbols after supper. It's these symbols that Jesus refers to as this Passover. Jesus did not keep the Mosaic Passover.

Jesus did not change any thing at all in Judaism. He had come to confirm the whole Law and the Prophets down to the letter and to make sure we all did the same. He was not a Hellenist of the kind of Paul who changed even the Law of the Decalogue. (Heb. 7:12,22)

 

[jamie]

Jesus did not change any thing at all in Judaism.

That goes without saying. You need to come out of the obsolete Judaic belief system.

Jesus told the Jews to repent and believe the gospel of the kingdom which is built on him, not Moses.

 

[jamie]

what does that mean in plain english?

That means Jesus is the symbolic Lamb of God just as the prophet said.