"Supreme Law Of The Land" - time for a change?

[aCultureWarrior]

Oh, I forgot you are a self educated know it all on this subject...

While the vast majority of TOL'ers spend their time yelling at each other "No, MY denomination is better than yours and is the ONLY way to Heaven!", I spend my time studying politics (one of 3 institutions that God ordained for the governance of men...the Church and Family being the other two). While I don't have one of them pretty little titles at the bottom of my page like you do, I do consider myself "self educated" when it comes to politics.

get a grip dude, you don't know what the heck your talking about, still holding on that a bunch of corrupt politicians will some how grow spiritual and fix a broken central government which they are complicit in corrupting...you are a true believer I'll give you that.

Since when it electing God-fearing men and women in to political office make them "corrupt politicians"?

I'll throw my support and voice for the one thing that can change it and it won't be anyone in Washington D.C., it will be the "Good People" (as you say) of the states taking their power from them...lawfully... and it is far more plausible than the expectation that D.C. politics will change without outside intervention.

I've already pointed out that judicial activist judges can be impeached and how to go about overturning immoral SCOTUS court decisions.

It's just a matter of getting enough "good people" interested in the political scene and doing something about it.

I've shown the con's of a constitutional convention. You seem to think that a few amendments is the cure-all for a sick and dying nation.

What will you do when activist judges rule against these supposed cure-alls and an apathetic Congress and their constituents sit back like they've been doing and do absolutely nothing?

 

[Traditio]

May I once again offer my favored alternative?

Dredd Opening Scene

 

[rocketman]

While the vast majority of TOL'ers spend their time yelling at each other "No, MY denomination is better than yours and is the ONLY way to Heaven!", I spend my time studying politics (one of 3 institutions that God ordained for the governance of men...the Church and Family being the other two). While I don't have one of them pretty little titles at the bottom of my page like you do, I do consider myself "self educated" when it comes to politics.

You are no more an expert than any other TOL'er tapping away at a computer board, maybe more savvy than some but, being a self proclaimed expert at anything really doesn't amount to spit here and you know it. I respect your voice on much around here but, I reject your dismissal of of a genuine effort by real constitutional scholars to play the one card the people have left. I have signed the petition have you? As you would say..."Educate Yourself"

http://www.conventionofstates.com

Since when it electing God-fearing men and women in to political office make them "corrupt politicians"?

Where are these good men/women of which you speak? I can name only a few, they are not in any number to make a difference and as a group Washington D.C. is corrupt, both houses collectively...corrupt, the presidency..certainly corrupt. Who is this God-fearing non corrupt man/woman that is going to single handedly change the corrupt federal government? Unlike yourself I am a realist...I see things for what they are, not how I want them to be.

I've already pointed out that judicial activist judges can be impeached and how to go about overturning immoral SCOTUS court decisions.

I assume you will accomplish this with those vast numbers of "God Fearing" politicians...this is a pipe dream AcW, not even in the realm of reality.

It's just a matter of getting enough "good people" interested in the political scene and doing something about it.

Truly you are an optimist, or a dreamer... I am sorry AcW, I don't share your optimism.

I've shown the con's of a constitutional convention. You seem to think that a few amendments is the cure-all for a sick and dying nation.

You might actually get people excited about the process if they felt they had a say through their state governments to force change, people have given up on the process as it stands because the system has been corrupted and gamed..I think you know it. I also think it is more likely to bring forth fruit, certainly better than holding out for corrupt politicians to impose needed changes upon themselves. You admit that the nation is sick & dying yet you reject the one card the founders gave to the people through the states to take control...desperate times, call for desperate measures.

What will you do when activist judges rule against these supposed cure-alls and an apathetic Congress and their constituents sit back like they've been doing and do absolutely nothing?

So what you are asserting is that there will be total anarchy? I would suspect that the legitimacy of any action such as this would be well established prior to any change being initiated. I never said that the process would not be controversial or painful but, it is possible and necessary.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
While the vast majority of TOL'ers spend their time yelling at each other "No, MY denomination is better than yours and is the ONLY way to Heaven!", I spend my time studying politics (one of 3 institutions that God ordained for the governance of men...the Church and Family being the other two). While I don't have one of them pretty little titles at the bottom of my page like you do, I do consider myself "self educated" when it comes to politics.

You are no more an expert than any other TOL'er tapping away at a computer board, maybe more savvy than some but, being a self proclaimed expert at anything really doesn't amount to spit here and you know it.

I don't recall using the word expert, I consider myself "knowledgeable" when it comes the to political sphere. I am impressed with myself today as I seem to be holding my own with a truthsmacking rocket scientist.

I respect your voice on much around here but, I reject your dismissal of of a genuine effort by real constitutional scholars to play the one card the people have left. I have signed the petition have you? As you would say..."Educate Yourself"

http://www.conventionofstates.com

I checked out the attached link and saw Libertarian Glenn Beck on it (who was a supporter of redefining God's institution of marriage). Is he one of those "constitutional scholars" that you're talking about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Since when it electing God-fearing men and women in to political office make them "corrupt politicians"?

Where are these good men/women of which you speak?

They're out there, it's just a matter of getting the "Evan-jellyfish" Christians motivated enough to do that real tough task:

Vote them in.

I can name only a few, they are not in any number to make a difference and as a group Washington D.C. is corrupt, both houses collectively...corrupt, the presidency..certainly corrupt. Who is this God-fearing non corrupt man/woman that is going to single handedly change the corrupt federal government? Unlike yourself I am a realist...I see things for what they are, not how I want them to be.

Not single handedly, we need good men and women at all levels of government. I like Ted Cruz because he is probably the most social conservative of the front runners if not of all of the Presidential candidates. There are plenty of good men and women in each State that will, if elected, help turn this country around, but they can't do it by themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I've already pointed out that judicial activist judges can be impeached and how to go about overturning immoral SCOTUS court decisions.

I assume you will accomplish this with those vast numbers of "God Fearing" politicians...this is a pipe dream AcW, not even in the realm of reality.

I get my "pipe dreams" from Holy Scripture. It says things like
"Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee" (Ex. 18:21-22).

The Bible talks quite a bit about the role of government, it's a very informative book, you should pick it up sometime (and aCultureWarrior gives Rocketman a hard jab to the ribs with that one).

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
It's just a matter of getting enough "good people" interested in the political scene and doing something about it.

Truly you are an optimist, or a dreamer... I am sorry AcW, I don't share your optimism.

Yet you're extremely optimistic when it comes to people like "constitutional scholar" Glenn Beck redesigning our constitution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I've shown the con's of a constitutional convention. You seem to think that a few amendments is the cure-all for a sick and dying nation.

You might actually get people excited about the process if they felt they had a say through their state governments to force change,

They do and it's not a new invention, it's called (drum roll)

the ballot box. But wait, there's more!

And when they vote those men and women into public office that said a whole bunch of cool stuff during their campaign, they actually have to keep on them to take action on their promises or vote the bums out of office!

people have given up on the process as it stands because the system has been corrupted and gamed..I think you know it.

Our system of government is not inherently corrupt, it's that way because good people allowed it to become that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
What will you do when activist judges rule against these supposed cure-alls and an apathetic Congress and their constituents sit back like they've been doing and do absolutely nothing?

So what you are asserting is that there will be total anarchy?

Total anarchy is a subject term. Many would agree that when it comes to the right of the unborn and things like lack of religious freedom, we're to the point of "total anarchy".

I would suspect that the legitimacy of any action such as this would be well established prior to any change being initiated. I never said that the process would not be controversial or painful but, it is possible and necessary.

Personally I think that Thomas Jefferson's "Tree of Liberty" quote needs to happen before any major changes take place in this country (but you didn't hear it from me, as that might sound "revolutionary").

 

[rocketman]

I don't recall using the word expert, I consider myself "knowledgeable" when it comes the to political sphere. I am impressed with myself today as I seem to be holding my own with a truthsmacking rocket scientist.

:chuckle: Don't be too impressed as I am not a rocket scientist just a working class puke that happens to make his living in the rocket launch business, nor do I claim to be anymore "knowledgeable" than yourself in the political sphere just a bit more pessimistic/realistic about how best to deal with it.

I checked out the attached link and saw Libertarian Glenn Beck on it (who was a supporter of redefining God's institution of marriage). Is he one of those "constitutional scholars" that you're talking about?.

Not a fan of Beck either, I am however a big fan of Mark Levin who is a constitutional scholar, former Reagan staffer, author, talk radio host and has been pushing this convention for a year or so now, wrote a book on the subject and has 34 states currently on board to boot. They want 40 before they start in earnest but, they have notified congress as to the intentions of the states to hold a convention.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Levin

They're out there, it's just a matter of getting the "Evan-jellyfish" Christians motivated enough to do that real tough task:

Vote them in.

Again, I don't share your optimism for getting them elected or what they will do when they are. The system is broken & needs to be redirected from a different angle.

Not single handedly, we need good men and women at all levels of government. I like Ted Cruz because he is probably the most social conservative of the front runners if not of all of the Presidential candidates. There are plenty of good men and women in each State that will, if elected, help turn this country around, but they can't do it by themselves.

I like him as well as Ben Carson, not sure they have the financial backing to compete against the establishment RINO machine but, we will see for sure. It will take more than a president to stem the corrupt tide of this progressive congress we are dealing with.

I get my "pipe dreams" from Holy Scripture. It says things like
"Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee" (Ex. 18:21-22).

The Bible talks quite a bit about the role of government, it's a very informative book, you should pick it up sometime (and aCultureWarrior gives Rocketman a hard jab to the ribs with that one).

Nice jab, let me in on it when you find this fantasy consensus with our "God fearing" electorate to establish this Biblical governance which you convinced yourself can be instituted in a secular nation, also which you insist is Christian. (rocketman returns with an uppercut of cold hard truth to the chin of aCultureWarrior)

Yet you're extremely optimistic when it comes to people like "constitutional scholar" Glenn Beck redesigning our constitution.

Optimistic? ...more so than I am with the expectation that Washington D.C. will magically change it's ways with a different person at the helm. If it does change it won't be Beck changing it...it will be you & I...The people taking this nation back from the Washington crooks that have perverted it, just as the founders took it from King George.

They do and it's not a new invention, it's called (drum roll)

the ballot box. But wait, there's more!

And when they vote those men and women into public office that said a whole bunch of cool stuff during their campaign, they actually have to keep on them to take action on their promises or vote the bums out of office!

WOW! and hows that (drum roll) ballot box been workin for ya the past 25 or so years now? Hmmm? You keep on believin brutha, hope it works out for ya but I highly doubt you will see any notable change..why would they?

Our system of government is not inherently corrupt, it's that way because good people allowed it to become that way.

I vehemently disagree with you

Total anarchy is a subject term. Many would agree that when it comes to the right of the unborn and things like lack of religious freedom, we're to the point of "total anarchy".

Where do you think that will get you?

Personally I think that Thomas Jefferson's "Tree of Liberty" quote needs to happen before any major changes take place in this country (but you didn't hear it from me, as that might sound "revolutionary").

You speak of anarchy & revolution, yet you oppose the avenue that the framers did provide in the constitution for restructuring and taking back the government peacefully & legally...seems just a bit extreme & convoluted thinking from where I am standing, as a Christian why would you not want to exhaust very legal avenue before entertaining extremes? that just doesn't make any logical sense at all aCW.

 

[Christian Liberty]

The constitution needs an explicit recognition of Christ's lordship, and the heresy of pluralism needs destroying.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

JBS CEO Art Thompson Introduces the STOP A Con-Con Campaign

2+ minute video
Link to website
http://www.jbs.org/issues-pages/no-con-con

Mark Levin's Dangerous Constitutional Convention Proposal

10+ minutes.

More later.

 

[rocketman]

So, you are a Bircher...that explains a lot. We have to agree to disagree at this point aCW, we are obviously political polar opposites . I thought you hated Ron Paul who is hailed by the JBS...like they said “If you like Ron Paul, you’ll love The John Birch Society!” ...sorry not a fan.

It been my distinct honor to have known Ron Paul for almost all of the years he has served in Congress. We know, and he knows, that he needs help down there in Washington. We’ll keep telling Americans what’s right about America — as well as what’s wrong. We’ll keep planting the seeds of liberty so that good candidates will arise and voters will make better choices. We’ll keep spreading the message of The John Birch Society contained in our motto, “Less government, more responsibility, and — with God’s help — a better world.” We pray as if everything depends on God, and we work as if everything depends on each of us. We believe that government should be limited by law, and people should be limited by freely accepted moral codes – such as the Ten Commandments. I hope each of you is as determined as every member of The John Birch Society to take our country back. And I close with a realization that has already dawned on so many newly awakened and newly energized Americans: “If you like Ron Paul, you’ll love The John Birch Society!”

http://www.jbs.org/presidents-corner/john-mcmanus-rocks-the-rally-for-the-republic

 

[rocketman]

A different view of the John Birch Society...

http://birchwatcher.com/jbs-fact-sheet/

 

[aCultureWarrior]

So, you are a Bircher...that explains a lot. We have to agree to disagree at this point aCW, we are obviously political polar opposites . I thought you hated Ron Paul who is hailed by the JBS...like they said “If you like Ron Paul, you’ll love The John Birch Society!” ...sorry not a fan.

(This is where Rocketman attacks the source but not the message that the source is providing).

Robert Welch started the John Birch Society back in the late 50's with the slogan :

"Less government, more responsibility, and — with God's help — a better world."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/item/6626-the-john-birch-society-50-years-and-beyond

Pretty radical huh?

I subscribed to The New American (a JBS publication) for many years but cancelled my subscription when the JBS had Ron Paul as their speaker at their 50th Anniversary Dinner (the old geezer is knowledgeable about the Constitution, even though his Libertarian stance makes him a certified nutcase). I still use The New American as a valuable informational source and still have the highest respect for the men and women that belong to the John Birch Society.

Now that you've done your mudslinging, back to why a "Con-Con" is a grave danger to our constitutional republic.

More About Mark Levin's Dangerous Con-Con Proposal

11 minutes.

 

[rocketman]

The constitution needs an explicit recognition of Christ's lordship, and the heresy of pluralism needs destroying.

Great platitude...not helpful but, a nice thought.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Liberty View Post
The constitution needs an explicit recognition of Christ's lordship, and the heresy of pluralism needs destroying.

Great platitude...not helpful but, a nice thought.

Many of the documents that were written before the Constitution laid the groundwork for where our rights come from:

God.

Again: It's just a matter of making the American people more knowledge about our nation's founding. I'll be doing a segment on taking back our Education system in my WHMBR! thread, check it out when the time comes.

 

[rocketman]

(This is where Rocketman attacks the source but not the message that the source is providing).

Robert Welch started the John Birch Society back in the late 50's with the slogan :

"Less government, more responsibility, and — with God's help — a better world."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/reviews/item/6626-the-john-birch-society-50-years-and-beyond

Pretty radical huh?

I subscribed to The New American (a JBS publication) for many years but cancelled my subscription when the JBS had Ron Paul as their speaker at their 50th Anniversary Dinner (the old geezer is knowledgeable about the Constitution, even though his Libertarian stance makes him a certified nutcase).

Now that you've done your mudslinging, back to why a "Con-Con" is a grave danger to our constitutional republic.

The source goes to where the message derives, and their slogan is just that...a slogan...BTW you just attacked the source of where I stand as well, including your attempted smear at me using that kook Glenn Beck. You shouldn't accuse others of mudslinging when you engage in the tactic regularly. There are many that have knowledge of the constitution aCW, and there are different ways to go about changing the paradigm we are faced with in our out of control central government. You still think that people will vote enough "Good People" in to change it, I on the other hand disagree and believe that it is time for the people to take the reigns from Washington D.C. and reset the system, two different approaches. We just disagree on which way it needs to be done. I reject the Birchers and their approach, you don't, it is as simple as that. We disagree...moving on now.

 

[Jonahdog]

The constitution needs an explicit recognition of Christ's lordship, and the heresy of pluralism needs destroying.

What do you mean by pluralism? the many different cultures we have here? The different languages? The different religions? Just what bothers you the most?

Would you like to roll the clock back? To when? When western Europeans came here, mostly Christian? Get rid of the black people, Asians etc. we have in this country now? Build the Trump Wall both north and south?

Although if you roll the clock back far enough maybe you just have the original natives in the US? Or Christ specifically give this continent to the Christians? I missed that part.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

The source goes to where the message derives, and their slogan is just that...a slogan...BTW you just attacked the source of where I stand as well, including your attempted smear at me using that kook Glenn Beck. You shouldn't accuse others of mudslinging when you engage in the tactic regularly. There are many that have knowledge of the constitution aCW, and there are different ways to go about changing the paradigm we are faced with in our out of control central government. You still think that people will vote enough "Good People" in to change it, I on the other hand disagree and believe that it is time for the people to take the reigns from Washington D.C. and reset the system, two different approaches. We just disagree on which way it needs to be done. I reject the Birchers and their approach, you don't, it is as simple as that. We disagree...moving on now.

The John Birch Society has been battling the loss of national sovereignty/sovereign rights for decades now, be it through free trade agreements, the United Nations and now with your attempt at a con-con.

I doubt that you took the time to view the Art Thompson videos that I posted, but if you should ever decide to take an open mind approach towards this subject, there is a lot that you can learn from those videos and the JBS website on the "con-con" that I linked.

 

[rocketman]

The John Birch Society has been battling the loss of national sovereignty/sovereign rights for decades now, be it through free trade agreements, the United Nations and now with your attempt at a con-con.

I doubt that you took the time to view the Art Thompson videos that I posted, but if you should ever decide to take an open mind approach towards this subject, there is a lot that you can learn from those videos and the JBS website on the "con-con" that I linked.

I watched them, wasn't moved...I am also very well aware of who the JBS is, and though I am aligned on some issues with them, I am as far as a person can be on others...they certainly lost any credibility they had when they aligned with Ron Paul. Nope, I am not a JBS fan.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
The John Birch Society has been battling the loss of national sovereignty/sovereign rights for decades now, be it through free trade agreements, the United Nations and now with your attempt at a con-con.

I doubt that you took the time to view the Art Thompson videos that I posted, but if you should ever decide to take an open mind approach towards this subject, there is a lot that you can learn from those videos and the JBS website on the "con-con" that I linked.

I watched them, wasn't moved...

I can tell that you're thoroughly brainwashed with the con-con idea.

I am also very well aware of who the JBS is, and though I am aligned on some issues with them, I am as far as a person can be on others...

If you would like to discuss those "as far as a person can be on others" issues, I'll gladly do so, but for now I would much rather stick to the subject of the Constitutional Convention and rewriting our beloved Constitution.

How about we start with this article?

"The Solution is the Constitution, not Article V"
http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/3105-3009ConAlecReprint-web.pdf

they certainly lost any credibility they had when they aligned with Ron Paul. Nope, I am not a JBS fan.

I just learned that Pastor Chuck Baldwin was a guest speaker at the dinner as well. I was a fan of Baldwin until he endorsed Ron Paul for President (and vice versa) and also said that marijuana should be legalized.

I have no idea what either talked about at the dinner, but I highly doubt it had anything to do with the legalization of all recreational drugs and whether or not homosexuality is a sin (Ron Paul isn't sure if it is).

What a coincidence, Paul's speech to the JBS is on the internet (I'll review it when I get more time).

https://vimeo.com/19602654

 

[rocketman]

I can tell that you're thoroughly brainwashed with the con-con idea.

I think the same can be said for your opposition to the idea, along with your alliance with JBS. So, is that how you always deal with a difference of opinion? attack it, demonize it and the person that holds it? Lame...

If you would like to discuss those "as far as a person can be on others" issues, I'll gladly do so, but for now I would much rather stick to the subject of the Constitutional Convention and rewriting our beloved Constitution.

Last I checked Article V is part of our "beloved constitution" and was placed there for a reason. Read federalist #85 and you will see why the founders wanted it in there, it goes into great detail of the fears of a tyrannical power rising from a too powerful central government. Article V was not an afterthought, it is just as legitimate as any other verbiage contained in this constitution, and ensures that the people always have the power to take power from the central government & place it back in the hands of the people of the states.

I just learned that Pastor Chuck Baldwin was a guest speaker at the dinner as well. I was a fan of Baldwin until he endorsed Ron Paul for President (and vice versa) and also said that marijuana should be legalized.

I have no idea what either talked about at the dinner, but I highly doubt it had anything to do with the legalization of all recreational drugs and whether or not homosexuality is a sin (Ron Paul isn't sure if it is).

What a coincidence, Paul's speech to the JBS is on the internet (I'll review it when I get more time).

You can watch the nut job, I would consider those minutes of my life I would never get back. :chuckle:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

I can tell that you're thoroughly brainwashed with the con-con idea.

I think the same can be said for your opposition to the idea, along with your alliance with JBS. So, is that how you always deal with a difference of opinion? attack it, demonize it and the person that holds it? Lame...

I've been studying this issue off and on for quite a few years. Again, when it comes to something as valuable (more like sacred) as the Constitution of the United States, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
If you would like to discuss those "as far as a person can be on others" issues, I'll gladly do so, but for now I would much rather stick to the subject of the Constitutional Convention and rewriting our beloved Constitution.

Last I checked Article V is part of our "beloved constitution" and was placed there for a reason. Read federalist #85 and you will see why the founders wanted it in there, it goes into great detail of the fears of a tyrannical power rising from a too powerful central government. Article V was not an afterthought, it is just as legitimate as any other verbiage contained in this constitution, and ensures that the people always have the power to take power from the central government & place it back in the hands of the people of the states.

I'm not questioning the wording of Article V, like the article that I linked I'm questioning if it's a good idea to alter a sacred document at a time when evil (i.e. special interests) run amuck.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/files/3105-3009ConAlecReprint-web.pdf

I'm not able to copy and paste from the pdf file on the computer I'm using (when it comes to computers, I aint no rock scientist), so I'll try on another later and show the specific concerns and the remedies for the ills that plague our nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
I just learned that Pastor Chuck Baldwin was a guest speaker at the dinner as well. I was a fan of Baldwin until he endorsed Ron Paul for President (and vice versa) and also said that marijuana should be legalized.

I have no idea what either talked about at the dinner, but I highly doubt it had anything to do with the legalization of all recreational drugs and whether or not homosexuality is a sin (Ron Paul isn't sure if it is).

What a coincidence, Paul's speech to the JBS is on the internet (I'll review it when I get more time).

You can watch the nut job, I would consider those minutes of my life I would never get back.

An open minded person would listen to what Ron Paul had to say before he belittled the John Birch Society for having him as a guest speaker for their 50th Anniversary Dinner.

 

[The Horn]

"Baby-murdering , sodomite-loving secular humanists ? Sheesh !
Secular liberals don't "murder babies ". We don't force women to have abortions, nor do we want to . The decision whether to bear a child or not is a WOMAN'S decision , and no one has the right to interfere with this .
"Secular humanists " want to PREVENT as many abortions as possible . Right-wing anti-choicers just delude themselves into believing that if our government just makes abortion illegal again, no abortions will happen, and everything will be hunky dory .
Liberals do NOT want gay people to be denied rights and persecuted by the government merely because SOME people are prejudiced against them because of their religious beliefs .
If gay people do not deserve equal rights, then NO ONE deserves any rights of any kind .
\