Shooting at SC Church During Bible Study - Suspect still at large

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
You want to know what is disgusting?....this is disgusting:

http://www.examiner.com/article/mem...usly-votes-to-dig-up-confederate-general-wife

This is an all time low for our nation!

Sherman and Grant had slaves that they didn't set free until after the war was over. Should we dig them up too? This is positively outrageous and an affront to decency! The city of Memphis needs to contract an artist to create a statue of hypocrisy and erect it!

If you disagree with the action of the Memphis City Council, I would go here, click on email the council members and give them a heads up.
http://www.memphistn.gov/Government/CityCouncil/CouncilMembers.aspx

If you want to go around changing the subject let me know.

As a tit for tat why don't we just relocate Arlington, seeing as it's a desecration of the Lee familial manor. Give it back to the good folks of the south, see, those people you referred to with their "code."

If you disagree with what Tennessee's doing I'd say you're no advocate of state's--oh. TH beat me to it.
 

IMJerusha

New member
Show me where I made that claim (though the Constitution isn't where you find laws pertaining to that).

Yes, states rights is found in the Constitution and that was your critique:
"so you want state's rights but feel obligated to butt into the business of the good people of Memphis, Tennessee."
 

IMJerusha

New member
If you want to go around changing the subject why don't we just relocate Arlington, seeing as it's a desecration of the Lee familial manor. Give it back to the good folks of the south, see, those people you referred to with their "code."

If you disagree with what Tennessee's doing I'd say you're no advocate of state's--oh. TH beat me to it.

Hide and watch, someone might propose the removal of the Custis-Lee Mansion from Arlington Cemetery.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Show me where I made that claim (though the Constitution isn't where you find laws pertaining to that).

Yes, states rights is found in the Constitution.
So first you can't show me, which effectively ends the point, but you want to try to extend the point anyway by claiming something equally wrong headed. :sigh:

The Constitution doesn't speak to grave digging. Again, that's not where (read the next part carefully) you find laws pertaining to that--that being grave digging, not the state's rights to fashion a code which might then differ as between states, making a pointed finger of outrage at the Constitution in relation to the Memphis effort pointless).

Or you could just stop trying to win the appearance of a point and recognize the plain truth that you over reached, again.

Speaking of reaching, you should try to reconcile your Lincoln not caring bit with his efforts to secure passage of the 13th Amendment.
 

IMJerusha

New member
It is the content of the heart that precedes the sins of commission and also the sins of omission. Anything may become a weapon.
I pray for our nation to find common ground.

Not likely as long as the Liberal agenda continues and the black community seeks something besides "full equality."
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Except that I did.
Claim something equally wrong headed? Yes, you did.

Exactly, except that would be grave un-digging in this case and the town council of Memphis overreaching, not me.
No, you're over reaching your own operating principle and it's funny.

Else, would it? Cite the code on the subject. My understanding is that the bodies are buried on public land and that they would be moved to a private cemetery. Also, prior to that move they must petitioned the court of competent jurisdiction and the state historic commission for permission, both of which I believe they have.

Forrest is infamous for his slaughter of 200 surrendered troops in the Battle of Fort Pillow and, of course, his later Klan activity.

Still trying to find a way around your Lincoln stance then...oh, well, I'll remind you from time to time, just as I'll remind my friend fzappa13 that he can post that list of things he thinks I side stepped any ol time now.
 

IMJerusha

New member
Forrest is infamous for his slaughter of 200 surrendered troops in the Battle of Fort Pillow.

Not to mention what slave holder William T. Sherman accomplished:

"I'm going to march to Richmond...and when I go through South Carolina it will be one of the most horrible things in the history of the world. The devil himself couldn't restrain my men in that state."

"There is a class of people (in the South), men, women and children, who must be killed or banished before you can hope for peace and order."

"I begin to regard the death and mangling of a couple of thousand men as a small affair, a kind of morning dash."

"This war differs from other wars, in this particular. We are not fighting armies but a hostile people, and must make old and young, rich and poor, feel the hard hand of war."

A hostile people?....Americans who wanted their right under the Constitution to govern their states. And isn't this what Liberals are trying to quash again?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Not to mention what slave holder William T. Sherman accomplished:
What's with the "Look, look, over here!' response? Have I defended Sherman? That man is dispised throughout the South. His tactics in Georgia should have seen him prosecuted for war crimes.

Doesn't excuse Forrest, of course. But if you want to discuss various generals and the conduct of their campaigns during the war start a thread and I'll happily contribute.

I see you're off the legality issue then. And still working on how to hold that Lincoln opinion you shared in light of his efforts in securing the 13th Amendment then.

It's okay. I'm a patient man. History is for the patient.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Wait just a doggone minute.
Isn't that what your additional comment about Forrest in your post was?
Not unless I misread and Memphis was about to move Sherman's body and sell his statue. I'd spoken to the legality, the humor in IMJ's sudden intervention into a sovereign state and encouragement of others without regard for their place of residence and I thought maybe a few people might want to know why the good folks in Memphis aren't particularly fond of maintaining his place in the civic profile. :poly: The more you know.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Seeing you agree with that bonehead's kind of disconcerting.
Who are you calling bonehead, you coward?
Not unless I misread and Memphis was about to move Sherman's body and sell his statue. I'd spoken to the legality, the humor in IMJ's sudden intervention into a sovereign state and encouragement of others without regard for their place of residence and I thought maybe a few people might want to know why the good folks in Memphis aren't particularly fond of maintaining his place in the civic profile. :poly: The more you know.

Lawyers love it when there are numerous convoluted arguments to have that do not involve justice.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Seeing you agree with that bonehead's kind of disconcerting.

Do Flags Kill People?

Butler Shaffer

No sooner had a sociopath carried out the murder of seven blacks at a South Carolina church, than the voice of Boobus Americanus rose up, as one, to get to the cause of the slayings: the Confederate battle flag! The South Carolina legislature hurriedly passed a bill to remove this flag from the capitol grounds. Not content with so limited a measure, it was decided to also cut down the flagpole that had flown it, the pole having been tainted by the flag’s presence thereon. Proponents of the anti-flag proposals dismissed concerns for “Southern heritage,” ignoring the fact that the real issue was one of causation. If otherwise intelligent minds want to focus on the interconnection between “flags” and “racism,” they would be better advised to go after the federal flag, a symbol behind which the Ku Klux Klan carried out its parades, as well as the federal “Fugitive Slave Act” which forced the return of runaway slaves from Northern states to their slave-masters!

Not wanting to be left out of the frenzied madness that was giving the South Carolina legislature so much media attention, Congress’ House of Representatives has been considering a bill to make it unlawful for people to display the Confederate flag in federal cemeteries. If your great-great-grandfather had fought for the South in the Civil War, and was now buried in a federal cemetery, you might become a politically-incorrect criminal by placing a small Confederate flag beside his gravestone. What next? Will the playing of the song “Dixie” be criminalized, along with that lovely expression of music – largely the creation of such black musicians as Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, and King Oliver – known as Dixieland? Will a federal SWAT team be sent into New Orleans’ French Quarter as soon as a few bars of “Do You Know What It Means to Miss New Orleans” are heard coming from a night-club?

I have heard nothing said about the House of Representatives taking down the two giant “fasces” that have long decorated the front of the House chambers. You can see these displayed on C-SPAN whenever that channel provides live coverage from the House. The fasces consists of an ax surrounded by a number of rods, and was used as the symbol of ancient Roman power. This symbol was used by Italian dictator Benito Mussolini for his political system, as well as many in the American political establishment who were so enthralled with Mussolini (see John Diggins, Mussolini and Fascism: The View From America) that, until after the end of World War II, the fasces symbol remained on the back of American dimes.

That so much of this anti-flag lunacy is emanating from South Carolina may lend support to the idea of “the power of place;” the possible tendency for a given territory to influence behavior. South Carolina was the site of a Republican Party presidential debate a few years back, in which Ron Paul was all but booed off the stage for suggesting that the “Golden Rule” might be a good foundation for American foreign policy. Considering that this state is represented, in Washington, by Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, might help explain the mindset of South Carolinians.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Do Flags Kill People?

Butler Shaffer

No sooner had a sociopath carried out the murder of seven blacks at a South Carolina church, than the voice of Boobus Americanus rose up, as one, to get to the cause of the slayings: the Confederate battle flag!
I didn't read beyond that point. A thesis that mature should come in crayon. Seven blacks at a church? Almost like they were there by accident...sociopath? Did I miss the diagnosis of the young man in question? Why not, instead, a hate filled racist murders seven black Christians in a house of worship?

Because putting it that way wouldn't allow him to call those who recognized the root of that young man's act "boobs" and offer an equally absurd premise to denigrate the more honest recognition and claims of those who called for a removal of a symbol of hatred from a seat of power. A symbol understood well enough by the murderer who was proud to associate with it.
 

rexlunae

New member
The American Civil War is long over.

The war part is, at least. Some elements of the larger struggle are still unfolding.

As a Yankee I've thought it a just war to preserve the Union and free those who were unjustly enslaved. Obviously it is viewed differently by many in the South?

There's an understandable and very human impulse to recast the past, to place the things we value in a more favourable light. And while it may be understandable, the effort to reinvent the past only clouds the issue, as does bringing up accurate but irrelevant complaints concerning side issues. Yes, Lincoln and the North in general were only committed reluctantly to ending slavery, and yes Sherman should have behaved better, but that doesn't improve the fundamental failing of the Lost Cause.

I owe allegiance to only one flag. And that flag is a symbol of The United States of America.

Personally, I don't even care about that. I don't have a lot of allegiance one way or another to a country or a flag, and I don't fault those who follow a different one in principle. What I do find fault in is the convenient whitewashing and revision of history and the reverence for a symbol of hate and oppression.

The battles are over and the folks who fought and died were laid to rest. To disturb their bones is a contemptible desecration.

My understanding is that some of these corpses were exhumed in order to by placed where they were. If there was no harm in the first place, why would there be in the second?

I am not into aggravating other peoples sensibilities. The Confederate flag means nothing to me. It neither aggravates nor inspires me.

Well, it meant something to state Senator Rev. Clem Pinckney. It was an attack on him personally, and on people who look like him. And it also meant something to the loser who murdered him, an official nod toward the hate that propelled him. The people who live in that culture, on both sides of that divide, understand what the flag means.

It is not worth a brouhaha.

No. But the lives of the people lost by our ignoring the issue are worth it.

But Liberals like to fasten on trivialities and make them major issues whilst ignoring things wherein their efforts might make a difference for the good?

Like gun control? I promise you, I would do something about that if I could, and I'm sure in another place, I will discuss it. But as far as it being a triviality, do you notice how the other side never has to justify their obsession with a triviality? Symbols matter, especially those that enjoy official support, and if they didn't matter, no one would bother defending the stupid thing. There wouldn't have been a stupid law insisting that the flag fly on the capital grounds of South Carolina if it didn't matter.

I read where some members of Congress wish to make the words "Man and wife" illegal? They wish the words "Spouse and Spouse" to be used instead.
Talk about jousting at windmills....

Well, it's hard to see how Congress would have any say in that. But then, since marriage isn't necessarily between a man and a wife, it does seem like a less than artful phrasing.
 
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