Saved are you?

[koban]

:thumb: :chuckle:

 

[STONE]

The person in question is not saved. He may have been attending the church at Corinth, but he was a tare among the wheat. Like Paul stated to Timothy, turn away from those people. They heard the truth, yet they refused to repent from their sin. Not saved, and never was. The question is always, will they be eventually?

I think I answered that above. Let me know if it's not clear.

The question was how is it that this man would have his flesh destroyed by satan and yet his spirit be saved in the 'Day of the Lord'.
Why not simply cast him out from amoung them?

 

[STONE]

God said speak to the rock. You can find the statement in the book of the law. God's spoken word operates like law.

Correct.
And Peter through fear (not love) as the text says did not honor the Gospel or the revelation and Words of God given directly to him.
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Still not a sin?

 

[STONE]

Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Jesus was making a point about how to stop sinning, and the importance of ceasing from sin by faith. He wants us to "pluck" out the eye that let's us see ourselves as a sinner. If not, he really is telling us to pluck out our eye.

John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Please let Jesus take away your sin forever right now. If you become blind to Satan's lie that you still sin in Christ, you will have no sin according to Jesus.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Whoever sins is a servant of sin. WHO will YOU serve. Choose today!

I walk in victory over sin, or rather the Lord Jesus in me, but that was not always so.
There is clear scriptural teaching, definitely in 1 John and others, of what you are saying however you are establishing Law and forgetting Grace.

I will discuss this more with you.

 

[STONE]

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Above is the principle clearly illustrated which we can build upon. Either John has very poor grammar, or he was talking about and to believers.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
Who is John writing to here? The answer is plain...all doubt is removed by these passages.
Please see post 113 for clarification:

 

[death2impiety]

I know it's OT but..

Ecclesiastes 7:20
For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

I'm really not so sure what to believe here. I know that I have faith in Christ. I know what He has done and I have accepted His gift of salvation. As I go about my days I keep myself from sin. I turn away and pray to God for strength to follow only Him and to have control over temptation.

I fight with sin in my mind. I feel like I am part of a war that is constantly being waged and I find that when I pray the temptation is alleviated. According to scripture the temptation itself is sinful. Sin manifests itself in ever aspect of existance. It doesn't seem that keeping from it 100% is entirely possible. In your life at some point there will be a moment where it occurs, there will be an instance when a sinful thought pops into your mind. At that point would you say you lose your salvation?

Does sin negate what Christ did for us or did Christ negate what sin does to us?

I'm just trying to get a handle on the righteous way of life. It isn't preposterous to me, I'm just having trouble believing absolute human righteousness is at all possible. It was mentioned that Christ lived in the flesh but did not submit to sin. Are you saying that we are to live as gods? Can we resist temptation as did the Son of God? Have we the power of the almighty? Hhmph...this is seemingly bordering on blasphemy. I don't know I'm confused :liberals:

Also, getting back to the point about the homo that was made earlier in this thread. If a homo admits wrongdoing and is has honest guilt in his/her heart for the sin they commit. Is that enough to be redeemed? The ARS (Absolute Righteousness Supporters) around here seem to believe that belief, faith and repentance aren't enough.

Job 33:12
“Look, in this you are not righteous.I will answer you, For God is greater than man.

Its OT again but did something change? Is man able to be as God????

But then I see this

Ezekiel 18:24
“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.

Matthew 7:20-28
20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I always pictured these folks as the "Christians" around me who publicly sin and are proud of it. False Christians who support homosexuality and abortion.

Juxtapose these next two and it seems that man can be righteous.

Luke 2:25
Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

Romans 4:5
However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

I just reread the second verse and saw that I read it wrong originally. Now it appears to support the SIS (sinning in salvation) side of it...

I'd love some input from both sides. I remain undecided on this matter. Consider me confused

 

[death2impiety]

Romans context

4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

 

[elohiym]

The question was how is it that this man would have his flesh destroyed by satan and yet his spirit be saved in the 'Day of the Lord'.

The same way we do. In the way several us us have been attempting to explain, by becoming dead to the law and sin.

If I am in your church, and you see me sinning, and I will not repent, I expect you to kick me out of your church. Deliver me to Satan, so he can destroy my flesh (so I can die to self, hopefully), then I will have a chance to let grace work.

Why not simply cast him out from amoung them?

That is what he is telling them to do. Here is how he puts it to Timothy:

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Turn away from those who claim to be saved, yet continue to sin. For example, turn away from child molesting priests--kick them out of your fellowship, because righteousness has no fellowship with unrighteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

[elohiym]

Correct.
And Peter through fear (not love) as the text says did not honor the Gospel or the revelation and Words of God given directly to him.
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Still not a sin?

Let's assume, fo the sake of argument, that Peter did sin in that instant. Do you know when Peter was converted (saved)? We know for sure that he was not converted yet when the Lord was crucified. We know that because Jesus tells Peter he is not saved yet at the last supper...

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

And so there is no confusion about whether converted means saved...

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So at least at the time of the last supper, we can say with certainty that Peter was not saved, even though he believe Jesus was the son of God.

Why wasn't Peter saved at that time? Because he still believed he sinned! Yes. Read...

Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. John 13:9,10


In Christ, we are clean every wit (sinless), but if we don't believe that, we are still not saved.

So perhaps Peter was still not saved at that point. He may have still been working out his salvation; and if one is still working out their salvation, logically, they haven't worked it out yet, and are not yet saved.

I dislike situational ethics in light of verses that state: "whoever sins is a servant of sin" and "whoever sins is of the devil" and ALL the other verses I supplied that prove without ambiguity that someone saved does not and cannot sin.

 

[elohiym]

I walk in victory over sin, or rather the Lord Jesus in me, but that was not always so.

If you walk in victory over sin, then you do not sin. If you sin, and claim to walk in victory, then you do not know the truth. That is what the Bible teaches without ambiguity.

Whoever sins is a servant of sin.

There is clear scriptural teaching, definitely in 1 John and others, of what you are saying however you are establishing Law and forgetting Grace.

How so? Doesn't Paul say we establish the law?

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

How am I forgetting grace? What I am preaching is 100% grace.

Some who calims a person can be saved while continuing to sin is preaching 100% law, and they have created some imaginary loophole in the law that allows them to claim to be righteous while they murder, rape, and steal their neighbor's wife. That is the epitomy of legalism, which has been what I have said for a couple of years now on these forums.

 

[elohiym]

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Above is the principle clearly illustrated which we can build upon. Either John has very poor grammar, or he was talking about and to believers.

There is another option. Some people are misinterpretating John's meaning.

We have sin dwelling in our flesh, and will until our mortal bodies are redeemed. That is consistent with what John stated.

John also stated: "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8

He doesn't state that Christians who commit sin are NOT of the devil. A Christian cannot be of the devil. Someone of the devil is NEVER saved.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
Who is John writing to here? The answer is plain...all doubt is removed by these passages.

He writes that we sin not, so does he expect us to sin or cease from sin? Is he asking us to do something that we cannot claim to have done.

"Go and sin no more." I can't, because John wrote I'd be a liar if I said I finally stopped sinning.
"Awake to righteousness and sin not." I can't, because John wrote I'd be a liar if I said I finally stopped sinning.
"Arm yourselves with the same mind...cease from sin." I can't, because John wrote I'd be a liar if I said I finally stopped sinning.
"Whoever sins is a servant of sin." Not me, because John wrote I'd be a liar if I said I finally stopped sinning.

Obviously John's words are being misinterpreted.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

David was not following God when he stole another man's wife and murdered him, no. His actions were a violation of the law. He received grace, which is why he was not put to death as the law required. God put away his sin, and David sinned no more.

1 Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

was he saved before he did that? he was called a man after God's own heart right? that was why he was chosen, and yet he still gave into sin after following God for a long time.