SALVATION IS A FREE GIFT

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God's Truth

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No I'm not. If you believe in anything besides the finished work of JESUS Christ on the cross for your salvation, you believe in works salvation. Your obedience is nothing but filthy rags. The cross is not about what you can do but about what JESUS has already done.

WARNING, RED FLAG! You called it a filthy rag to obey God.


Isaiah 5:20

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
 

Bright Raven

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WARNING, RED FLAG! You called it a filthy rag to obey God.


Isaiah 5:20

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Do you really want to stand before JESUS and tell him that he should accept you because you were obedient? What about the blood? I guess to you obedience is more important than the blood that accomplished the work of our redemption. Good luck pal because he is going to say depart from me, I never knew you.
 

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WARNING, RED FLAG! You called it a filthy rag to obey God.
He did NOT say that ! .... you are a LIAR AGAIN.

The filthy rags are YOUR righteousness (and mine). There is ONE righteousness that will stand before God and not be destroyed and THAT is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.


Rom 5:19-21 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Praise the LORD!!!
 

God's Truth

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Striking out what I say won't make it go away, GT.
I put strikes through your lies about me rejecting the Bible; and strike through because you repeated the same untruthful thing.

The BIBLE SAYS that we are to place our trust in CHRIST'S faith, not our own.

The Bible says that WE HAVE TO HAVE FAITH in Jesus.

No faith in our works cleaning us, but the faith of Jesus cleaning us.

The BIBLE SAYS that Paul destroyed the church.

Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,


Obviously Paul did NOT destroy completely the church, or Peter and the other Apostles and disciples would all have been dead by the command of Paul.


Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:



See that, Paul has done evil. Doesn't say complete destruction, as what destroyed means.



Acts 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?


Did you read that? Paul destroyed THEM which called on Jesus' name; that is about destroying a person, as in having them put to death.



Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.

Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.


Did you read all of that?
Paul is ADMITTING HIS SINS, yet, you want to say he left out that he destroyed the church of God in Israel?
Again, none of the JEWISH Apostles would have still been alive if Paul did that. If Paul did that, then how did he get saved?


The BIBLE SAYS that Paul claims we do not have to do anything to earn our salvation. We need simply to place our trust in the faithfulness of Christ.

You keep throwing in the word 'earn', but that just shows how you add things to what others say.

You are guilty of what you claim all the time that I do.

Jesus tells us whom he saves and why.

He shows us the way.

He tells us what to do to prepare our hearts for him to live there and who he puts in him.


Circumcision came before the law, and is therefore a synecdoche of it.

What?

He's making a distinction between two groups where you say there is none.

There are the Jews and the Gentiles. Both groups could come to Jesus the same way to get saved.

God doesn't care anymore who was circumcised in the flesh, because it is no longer of men.


Go read what God said to Paul in Acts 9:15. That's the reason Paul went to the uncircumcised.

Paul went to the Gentiles because:


Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Acts 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.



Don't deny the truth! Read all that and take it in and believe! That is no mere thing that Paul did to the JEWS who became CHRISTIANS.


Which is exactly what I said.

There ARE however, verses where Paul says to "repent and turn toward God," which is NOT talking about individual sins, but to turn away from a life of sin. In other words, the verses that you will claim to say that they teach repenting of sin are in fact talking about turning away from sinning in general NOT individual sins, and turning towards God to live for Him, instead of living for one's flesh.

Paul says PLAINLY what John the baptizer said. REPENT OF SPECIFIC SINS---PROOF IS EASY to show! Prove your REPENTANCE by your deeds.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You SAYING THAT is what doesn't make it so. NEITHER does you saying ANYTHING make it so. So why keep saying that rude thing to me? Take your own advice. It makes you a hypocrite to tell me saying that doesn't make it so.

Again, repenting from a life of sin fits exactly what I said, and has NOTHING to do with one's salvation, except that it comes AFTER one is saved.

People REPENTED of their SINS, and THEN called on the name of the Lord!

Paul had to repent of his sins and then call on Jesus to help him.

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name



Paul preached to CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD.
What do you think they are calling on the name of the Lord for? They are calling on the name of the Lord to save them!


Romans 10:13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:


2 Timothy 2:19Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."


2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.


I'm going to believe what the Bible says, which is that Paul destroyed the church if Israel, but that God started a NEW church with Paul being the first convert.

Oh my, you don't understand what evil it is that you said, and with pride.

No, that's not what Jesus said.

He said that the gates of Hell could not stand AGAINST it.

He said nothing about it being destroyed from within.
Wow. What a twisted thing to say.

So you think that Jesus wanted Paul to destroy the church from within?
 

God's Truth

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He did NOT say that ! .... you are a LIAR AGAIN.

The filthy rags are YOUR righteousness (and mine). There is ONE righteousness that will stand before God and not be destroyed and THAT is the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.


Praise the LORD!!!

Those good animal blood offerings for sins that THEY WERE NOT SORRY FOR became as offerings of menstrual blood offerings on rags that a woman throws away.. Read Isaiah 1

Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
 

God's Truth

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Do you really want to stand before JESUS and tell him that he should accept you because you were obedient?

I have a powerful testimony of when Jesus saved me. He wouldn't have saved me if I didn't do what he said to do to get saved.

Again and again, you make obedience to Christ a filthy bad wrong thing. You make obedience to Christ an evil act.

God warns about not doing that.
What about the blood? I guess to you obedience is more important than the blood that accomplished the work of our redemption. Good luck pal because he is going to say depart from me, I never knew you.

The blood washes away the sins we die to.

How do you ever get that Jesus is going to tell obedient children to depart from him??!!!

Think about it more carefully!

God says to those who didn't repent of their sins to depart from Him.
 

Right Divider

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Those good animal blood offerings for sins that THEY WERE NOT SORRY FOR became as offerings of menstrual blood offerings on rags that a woman throws away.. Read Isaiah 1

Isaiah 1:13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!

That is EXACTLY like YOU bringing your "obedience" to Christ when HE DIED for your SINS.

It was HIS obedience that will make many righteous.


Rom 5:19 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
 

God's Truth

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That is EXACTLY like YOU bringing your "obedience" to Christ when HE DIED for your SINS.

It was HIS obedience that will make many righteous.


Rom 5:19 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Jesus was obedient so that WE COULD HAVE HIM TO BE OBEDIENT TO.
 

Bright Raven

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I have a powerful testimony of when Jesus saved me. He wouldn't have saved me if I didn't do what he said to do to get saved.

Again and again, you make obedience to Christ a filthy bad wrong thing. You make obedience to Christ an evil act.

God warns about not doing that.


The blood washes away the sins we die to.

How do you ever get that Jesus is going to tell obedient children to depart from him??!!!

Think about it more carefully!

God says to those who didn't repent of their sins to depart from Him.

Jesus doesn't care about your obedience. You must believe in the POWER of the BLOOD to be saved. He wants to know if you realize that it is the BLOOD of the CROSS that saves and nothing else. It is like the old hymn says "What can wash away my sin, NOTHING but the BLOOD of JESUS. Obedience has nothing to do with your salvation. Salvation comes only by grace through faith. If not, you are LOST.
 

God's Truth

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And this coming from someone that uses the absolute piece of garbage called the NIV?

Paul went to the Gentiles because:

KING JAMES VERSION
Acts 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.
Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,
Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Acts 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?
Acts 22:4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
Acts 22:19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
Acts 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Philippians 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
 

God's Truth

New member
Jesus doesn't care about your obedience.

WHAT?!!! Prove that with scripture! Give the scripture that says Jesus doesn't care about your obedience! You can't just make up things.

You must believe in the POWER of the BLOOD to be saved.

The blood washes away the SINS WE REPENT OF DOING.

He wants to know if you realize that it is the BLOOD of the CROSS that saves and nothing else. It is like the old hymn says "What can wash away my sin, NOTHING but the BLOOD of JESUS. Obedience has nothing to do with your salvation. Salvation comes only by grace through faith. If not, you are LOST.

What can WASH AWAY YOUR SINS? The sins you repent of doing? THE BLOOD OF JESUS does that.
 

Bright Raven

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WHAT?!!! Prove that with scripture! Give the scripture that says Jesus doesn't care about your obedience! You can't just make up things.



The blood washes away the SINS WE REPENT OF DOING.



What can WASH AWAY YOUR SINS? The sins you repent of doing? THE BLOOD OF JESUS does that.

You are hopelessly lost. You do not believe that it is the blood that saves. You believe that it is obedience that saves. How sad. I pity you for you are lost and bound for hells fire
 

God's Truth

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You are hopelessly lost. You do not believe that it is the blood that saves. You believe that it is obedience that saves. How sad. I pity you for you are lost and bound for hells fire

You lie about my beliefs. Show where I say we don't have to go through Jesus' blood.

Show where I say Jesus doesn't do the saving.

No, those who obey God don't go to hell---their obedience to God doesn't send people to hell.

That is evil to say such a thing.
 

God's Truth

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Jesus was obedient so that WE COULD HAVE HIM TO BE OBEDIENT TO.
Jesus, High Priest of a Better Covenant

Hebrews 8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
Hebrews 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Hebrews 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Revelation 3:21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
 

Bright Raven

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You lie about my beliefs. Show where I say we don't have to go through Jesus' blood.

Show where I say Jesus doesn't do the saving.

No, those who obey God don't go to hell---their obedience to God doesn't send people to hell.

That is evil to say such a thing.

All right then answer me one question. How are we save? Through the blood or by obedience?
 

Right Divider

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Jesus was obedient so that WE COULD HAVE HIM TO BE OBEDIENT TO.
Jesus, High Priest of a Better Covenant

Hebrews 8:1 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven,
Hebrews 10:12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,
Hebrews 12:2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.
Revelation 3:21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
We who are in the body of Christ NEVER had a priesthood NOR a high priest. That was the NATION OF ISRAEL.

You lack of understanding is astounding.

OUR apostle Paul never ONCE uses the words PRIEST or PRIESTHOOD in ANY of his THIRTEEN epistles. That's a clue that you will ignore, dance around, lie about.... etc. etc. etc.
 

God's Truth

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We who are in the body of Christ NEVER had a priesthood NOR a high priest. That was the NATION OF ISRAEL.

You lack of understanding is astounding.

OUR apostle Paul never ONCE uses the words PRIEST or PRIESTHOOD in ANY of his THIRTEEN epistles. That's a clue that you will ignore, dance around, lie about.... etc. etc. etc.

Jesus is the High Priest FOR ALL.

Gentiles didn't have a high priest because they REJECTED HIM.

Good grief!
 
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