Question for Bob Hill: Rewards

Sozo

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
It is you who is pathetic,Sozo.
You are no different than me, you self-righteous, hypocritical, pig.


If a Christian had already received the reward then Paul would not say that he "shall receive" it in the future.
Sure he would. It simply was not manifested to the one who receives it until it was revealed by fire.

The Scriptures reveal that the Christian will receive rewards in the future. I believe that but you do not
Anyone who has read this thread, now has proof that you are a liar.

I have affirmed several place in this thread about THE reward.


Since the Lord did not choose to reveal exactly what those rewards are then I will not speculate what those rewards might be.
Actually, he did, biut you expect more, because to godless perverts who are not satisfied with Jesus, seek to glory in their own works, and expect God to pay them back.

You are an insatiable pervert.

You will get the reward of eternal damnation.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Sozo said:
I have affirmed several place in this thread about THE reward.
Sozo,

Here is what you say about THE reward:
All who come to Christ, receive THE reward (present & future tense), which is His life, and in His life we receive all that God has prepared for us (present & future tense).
Are you so stupid that you do not even realize that the "reward" which we are speaking of is according to "works" (1Cor.3:12-15)?

Or do you believe that the reward of "His life" is according to works?

It is difficult enough to discuss the things of God with someone who is merely foolish,but in your case you are both foolish and stupid.

As i said previously,Paul put the "receiving" of the reward in the future:

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward" (1Cor.3:14).

The Greek word translated "shall receive" is in the "future" tense,Sozo.

If the Christian already had the reward then Paul would not tell him that he would receive it in the future.After all,how can you receive something that you already have?

I said:
If a Christian had already received the reward then Paul would not say that he "shall receive" it in the future.
Since you have no reasonable answer to this you revert to your old stupid self and say something that is stupid.
Sure he would. It simply was not manifested to the one who receives it until it was revealed by fire.
How can anyone take you seriously,you fool?

According to you someone already has the reward but he does not receive it until later!

The word "manifiest means "readily perceived by the eye or the understanding".

According to your ignorant idea a person can already have the reward but until it is made known to him he really never had it to begin with.Then when it is manifested to him then he receives it.

How long did it take your feeble mind to dream up this stupid idea,Sozo?
 

Sozo

New member
Jerry Shugart said:
Are you so stupid that you do not even realize that the "reward" which we are speaking of is according to "works" (1Cor.3:12-15)?

Or do you believe that the reward of "His life" is according to works?
Jerry, if there is stupid in the room, you are smelling your own stench.

This is the final time that I am going to explain this to you, because you obviously think that God owes you something for whatever it is that you perceive that you have done for Him.

"And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to babes in Christ."

The Corinthians had been immersed in the wisdom of this world (chapter 2), and Paul must address the things that are bringing division among them.

"I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly."

Paul laid the foundation of Christ Jesus, but they could not move on the the meat of the message, because they were still immersed in the things of this world.

"For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?"

They were attributing to men the things that belong solely to God, and they followed them. This led to This led to jealousy and division.

"For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one. I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth."

ALL the glory goes to God, Jerry. Paul and Apollos were simply servants of God through whom they had come to believe in God.

"So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth."

They are tools in the hand of God as He works in and through them.

"Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor."

Paul and Apollos are workers in the field. The work that they are doing is laying the foundation and building upon it. The "reward" is related to the work that they are doing in the field. One of them plants the seed, and another one waters it. Just as in crops, the same is true... If you plant a good seed, and water it as it should be, you will have the reward of your labor. So it is here. If the seed that is being sown into the hearts of men is a good seed, and/or if it is cared for properly, they they will be rewarded for their labor.
The reward is that there is fruit. The fruit of the labors of Paul and Apollos are the souls that are not only saved (present tense), but also that those who are saved reach maturity (future tense).

"For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, God's building. According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But let each man be careful how he builds upon it."

Paul goes on to compare his labors as in constucting a building. He lays the foundation, and another one comes along and builds on that foundation. However, it is important how someone builds on that foundation, just as it is important how someone cares for the seed that was planted.

"For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

There is only one foundation that can be built upon, and that is Jesus. As Paul just stated in the previous chapter...

"For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified."

"Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work."

Whatever someone uses to build upon the foundation will be revealed, when it is tested by fire. If it remains, then the work was true, if it is burned up, then it was a dead work. It was of no benefit to the one who received it.

"If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward."

This is where the heart of the self-righteous stumble, and in fact is revealed. The reward is that it remained. The reward is revealed by the fire.

Because you are so "works" oriented, Jerry, you think God owes you something for your labors, but it is simply that the works you have done are either revealed as having been in vain, or there was real fruit.

Just like in a building. If you had built the building with the proper materials, then when it is exposed to fire, it will remain, and the reward is in the fact that the building remains. You do not get something else because the building remains as some sort of bonus. You only did what you were called to do, and the fire proved that you were a faithful builder.


"If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire."

If the proper materials were not in use, then the building will have been destroyed, though the foundation remains, but the one who built it will suffer the loss of the reward of having the building remain. However, he will not be lost, but all his efforts will have been in vain.

It is really simple, Jerry. There are ministers of the gospel who actually continue to bring the truth of the message of Christ in you to their congregations, and then there are those who do as the Judaizers did to Galatia, and add to the foundation with perfection through the deeds of the flesh. They probably say things like... "If you obey the Law, then God will give you some rewards in heaven". They are preaching a message that will not remain.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Sozo said:
"If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward."

This is where the heart of the self-righteous stumble, and in fact is revealed. The reward is that it remained. The reward is revealed by the fire.
Sozo,you buried your answer but it was easy to find.

You remain stuck on "stupid".

The verse which you quoted says that if the work which the Christian is not burned then that Christian will "receive a reward".

That can only mean that this reward is not possessed by the Christian yet.

But according to you the Christian already has the reward but it is not revealed until later that "the reward remained".

Your answer is totally inadequate and answers none of the points which I raised.

You continue to insist that the rewards which come by building on the foundation (which is Christ) is already in the possession of the Christian despite the fact that Paul puts the receiving of those rewards in the "future":

"If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward" (1 Cor.3:14).

Paul uses the future tense--"shall receive".

But you want to change the tense in order to be able to say,"he received the reward and later it will be revealed that the reward remains".

You prove once again that you are willing to twist and pervert the Scriptures in order to make them fit your petty ideas.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Sozo said:
See post # 283
Let's examine the idea put fort by Sozo again.

He says:
Whatever someone uses to build upon the foundation will be revealed, when it is tested by fire. If it remains, then the work was true...
If the "work" remains then it is true.
The reward is that it remained. The reward is revealed by the fire.
So Sozo is saying that the reward is the "work" which the Christian has done building on the foundation.

Imagine that!

The Lord promises the Christian a reward for the service which he does in behalf of the Lord,and that reward is the "work" itself!

Just imagine what a person would think if a boss told a laborer that he would receive a reward if he did some work for him which he deemed satisfactory. Then when finished the laborer came to the boss after doing a satisfactory job,and asked the boss,"Now can I have my reward?"

Then the boss says,"Your reward is your work!"

Some people prove that they will twist and pervert the Scriptures in order to support their mistaken ideas. What Sozo does to the words of Paul is nothing but a perversion. And it makes no sense whatsoever.
 

Sozo

New member
You have no respect for the building or the foundation that it is built upon, Jerry.

Jesus and His Body, that is built up in Him, is not enough for you.

If you need a better reward than that, Jerry, I know of a group that will promise you 72 virgins, but you'll have to blow yourself up.

:chuckle:
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Sozo said:
A "dead work" is trying to do something, to get something, that you already have.

Believers have been given everything in Christ.

When Christians try to gain something from God by what they do, those are dead works.

All works by unbelievers are dead works, because they are already condemned. All their deeds are as filthy rags.

The only works that have any importance in the life of a Christian are those things that God is doing in us, and through us. For the most part, you will probably be unaware of them. That is why we walk by faith.

"...for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."

kmoney... Did you understand the text in those two chapters?


Let's ignore the rest of what is being said in this thread, and keep up the dialogue. I think you will find this to be eye-opening and life changing.
Ok, so now I understand how you think Christians will be included in that judgment. What do you we will receive, according to what we've done through our bodies?
 

lightninboy

Member
The "a" millennial (literally meaning "no" millennium) position is the eschatological view of historic Catholic, Lutheran and Reformed Christianity. It would be my educated guess that about two-thirds of the Christian family espouse an amillennial eschatology. The amillennial position is as well the position of the vast majority of Reformed and Lutheran theologians.
Amillennialists insist that the promises made to national Israel, David and Abraham, in the OT are fulfilled by Christ and the Church during this age, which is the millennium, that is the entire period of time between the two advents of our Lord. The "thousand years" are therefore symbolic of the entire inter-advental age. Satan is bound by Christ's victory over him and the establishment of the kingdom of God via the preaching of the gospel, and Satan is no longer free to deceive the nations, through the presence of Christ is reigning in heaven during this period with the martyrs who come out of the great tribulation. At the end of the millennial age, Christ returns in judgement of all men. The general resurrection occurs, final judgement takes place for all men and women, and a new Heaven and Earth are established.
In most forms of amillennialism, immediately before the return of Christ, Satan is unbound, there is a great apostasy, and a time of unprecedented satanically inspired evil. This last Satanic gasp and subsequent rebellious activity is destroyed by our Lord at his return.
Amillennialism has always been the majority position of the Christian family. It was first articulated by St. Augustine, and has been given a distinctive Reformed emphasis through the work of Geerhardus Vos (the "Biblical-Theological" approach). As the "dispensational" movement captured the hearts and minds of conservative American Evangelicals, amillennialism was equated with "liberalism" or Roman Catholicism. The supposed interpreting prophecy "spiritually" or "not-literally" has lead to the rejection of amillennialism by many. In addition, amillennialism suffered greatly from the failure of Reformed and Luthern writers to defend the position against the likes of Dave Hunt, Chuck Missler and Hal Lindsey, who has labeled the position as "demonic and heretical," and the root of modern anti-semitism.
Leading contemporary "amill" theologians would include popular writers such as J. I. Packer, Mike Horton, [the late] Calvin seminary professor, Anthony Hoekema, and RC Sproul. In addition, all of the Reformers, as well as the Reformed and Lutheran confessional traditions, as a whole, have been amillennial.


Augustine's change in eschatology from premillennialism to amillennialism caused significant changes in his soteriology, especially in the area of perseverance of the saints. Specifically, his reinterpretation of Matt 24:13 (“he who endures to the end will be saved”) as a spiritual salvation instead of a physical salvation (to enter and populate the Millennium) caused drastic changes in his soteriology. Perseverance of the saints (faithfulness until the end of one’s physical life) became the sine qua non of his soteriology. One could believe in Christ, have the fruit of the elect, but prove he was not elect if he should not persevere in faithfulness until the end of his physical life.

Early scholars such as Origen and Augustine did great damage to the early beliefs of the Church Fathers, the immediate successors of the apostles, by taking extensive liberties in applying Gnostic and Greek philosophy to the interpretation process.
The result was dramatic and had the effect of throwing the world into the Dark Ages and the bible text into confusion with private interpretation by way of spiritualizing or allegorizing certain texts which did not mesh with Origen and Augustine's predetermined beliefs.
 

lightninboy

Member
While you're on earth you should shine like a star
Brighten up the corner wherever you are.
Doing each day the best you can do
That way you're sure they'll never hand you --

A rusty old halo, skinny white cloud
Second-hand wings full of patches.
Rusty old halo, skinny white cloud,
A robe so wooly that it scratches.
 

lightninboy

Member
Life is the time to serve the Lord,
The time to ensure the great reward;
And while the lamp holds out to burn,
The vilest sinner may return.
 

lightninboy

Member
I have bashed amillennialism, and coincidentally postmillennialism and preterism, into shreds.

Now if only premillennialism was understandable and believable!
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Sozo said:
:chuckle:

I know most of the Pastors in most of the churches in this area. I use to promote concerts, pro-life events, and bible conferences, so I am well aware of what most teach in both the denominational and non-denominational congregations in the metro area.

I was very involved with the Christian community, and believe me, I want nothing to do with it.


Lone Ranger Christian?

Christ loved the Church and died for it (Eph. 5). The local church is God's 'institution', family, army, building, body, etc. (Acts). The church is imperfect, but Christ promised to build it. It is easier to criticize and isolate oneself, but it is not right nor biblical. Maturity supports local churches and leadership, despite imperfections. Home fellowships have their place, but so does the larger congregational setting incarnated visibly in the community. I know of many healthy, growing, impactful churches. Your comment is telling, but contradictory to NT Christianity. Your home fellowship does not have all the gifts and ministries and will never have the impact that a larger church or fellowship of churches can have worldwide.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
lightninboy said:
I have bashed amillennialism, and coincidentally postmillennialism and preterism, into shreds.

Now if only premillennialism was understandable and believable!


Amillenialism, etc. relies on an allegorical approach to the Book of Revelation. A normative literal hermeneutic (also recognizes symbolism) leads to a premillennial view.

Try this on for understanding:

http://www.amazon.com/Things-Come-Study-Biblical-Eschatology/dp/0310308909

(click search inside for contents)
 

Sozo

New member
godless turd said:
Lone Ranger Christian?
Go to hell, godless.

I have a home fellowship, just like they did in the early church.

You are a fricken', low-life, piece of dung.

You wouldn't go to a church that teaches Calvinism. So kepp your moronic opinions to your self.

You have no integrity as a human being. You are good for nothing and for no one. Your life is worthless.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Sozo said:
Go to hell, godless.

I have a home fellowship, just like they did in the early church.

You are a fricken', low-life, piece of dung.

You wouldn't go to a church that teaches Calvinism. So kepp your moronic opinions to your self.

You have no integrity as a human being. You are good for nothing and for no one. Your life is worthless.

Because I am in Christ and have His life, I cannot and will not go to H-E-Two sticks.

Home fellowships were not at the expense of larger local churches (both/and, not either/or). The danger of your home fellowship is similar to whacky parents who home school (I support home schooling, but it is not the best if the parents are dysfunctional themselves): if you are out of balance, there will be no correction. If you are not mature, you will not grow. How many from your community that you will want to reach will fit in your house? How many would actually come?

I would not go to a church that is off the wall, but to say an entire city or area has no true churches is unlikely. I understand your logistic issues with transportation, proximity, etc. (excuse? reason?), so I will not judge. There is a normative biblical pattern and an exceptional one. You may be the exception, but do not foist it on the rest of the world, nor slander the Church that Christ loved and died for (perhaps you are a rebel or arrogant and cannot function in the Body like we are commanded to)?

Because I am in the image of God (even those who have defaced vs erased the image of God through sin), I have value. He died for me. He thinks I have value. Your assessment is atheistic.

Just because I do not kiss your feet does not mean I do not have integrity. :wazzup:
 

lightninboy

Member
Sinners, whose love can ne’er forget the wormwood and the gall,
Go spread your trophies at His feet, and crown Him Lord of all.
Go spread your trophies at His feet, and crown Him Lord of all.
 
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