ECT Ps 89: too much about Christ to be about David

steko

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Peter straightened that out for you.

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

So....you're saying that GOD equivocated thru Peter in these verses?

I've quoted these same verses and so have others with who I agree with concerning interpretation.

You included no interpretation of these verses to prove your point.

I assume you believe that these verses prove that Christ will not reign from David's throne on earth in the future and that Christ is presently reigning from David's throne in heaven.
These verses do not say that.
Peter only says that Christ was raised 'to sit' on David's throne. He does not say that He is presently sitting there. If Peter were to mean that Christ was presently sitting on David's throne it would contradict all other Scripture on the subject.
Besides, Peter declares to Israel in Acts 3 that if Israel would repent then GOD would send the Lord Jesus back to fulfill the rest of OT prophecy which has not been fulfilled...yet.

So did Jesus--

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Again, I use this same verse very often to demonstrate that Christ refers to two thrones here, one being His Father's in which Christ is presently sitting, and then His future throne, the throne of His glory, David's throne at His return in which rule these believers are invited to participate.


Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

LA

Those verses are referring to an event in the far off future beyond Christ's second coming to the earth, the Mt of Olives to judge the nations from His glorious throne, the throne of David. Mt 25:31
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes,

MAD thinks the tent of David is something of the coming millennium.

A simple read of Revelations shows otherwise.

Changing the beliefs of the blind without the Lord opening their eyes is not a good idea.

LA

Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.


This verse speaks of the reign of Hezekiah on the throne of David in the tabernacle of David in Judah......on planet earth, in the promised land called Israel.

Likewise, Act 15:16 speaks of the same earthly tabernacle and throne of David which Christ will restore at His second coming....in harmony with all prophecy.

GOD doesn't change the definition of His words in prophecy.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Your conclusion that James changed the wording is off.

You see this...

Acts 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

James used the word "prophets" which is plural.

When the Jews referred to any prophecy found in the OT they used the term the "prophets." Even if only one specific prophecy was in view.

And you are wrong when you assert that James did not change the wording.

"In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things" (Amos 9:11-12; Septuigant).​

James replaced the words "in that day" with the following words:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 15:16).​
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Isa 16:5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.


This verse speaks of the reign of Hezekiah on the throne of David in the tabernacle of David in Judah......on planet earth, in the promised land called Israel.

Likewise, Act 15:16 speaks of the same earthly tabernacle and throne of David which Christ will restore at His second coming....in harmony with all prophecy.

GOD doesn't change the definition of His words in prophecy.



It is absolutely not what they are saying Steko. The incoming faith of the Gentiles was welcomed because this prediction was NOW true, not 2500 years in the future. No one thinks that way. No one then did things that way. You have futuritis.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
They discussed this passage because of what it meant right then. They said 'it has been known for generations' that God would do this work among the Gentiles, because of Gen 3 and 12 and 15.

Unbelief in futurism and 2P2P, yes!
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
They discussed this passage because of what it meant right then. They said 'it has been known for generations' that God would do this work among the Gentiles, because of Gen 3 and 12 and 15.

What it meant right then to them was that the prophecy agreed that GOD would bless the nations through their Messiah. They were struggling to understand the details of how He was accomplishing that at that present time.
But, James declares that when GOD had accomplished His mission of taking out of the nations a people for His name, that He[the triune GOD] would return and restore David's regal dynasty.

Unbelief in futurism and 2P2P, yes!

....by a faulty hermeneutic.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
When the Jews referred to any prophecy found in the OT they used the term the "prophets." Even if only one specific prophecy was in view.

And you are wrong when you assert that James did not change the wording.

"In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things" (Amos 9:11-12; Septuigant).​

James replaced the words "in that day" with the following words:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 15:16).​

Danoh believe his opinions: "Reign Supreme!" All other opinions are inferior to his. Gotta love his unfounded arrogance.
 

Tambora

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....by a faulty hermeneutic.
That's foolish.


Luke 1:32-33 KJV
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.​



Not the same people. Not the same throne.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
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As I just demonstrated in my last post to Interplanner, James believed that the raising up of David's tent would not happen until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth. And here the Lord Jesus spoke about His return to the earth and He says that it will be "then" when He begins to sit upon His throne:

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).​

This will mark the beginning of the Millennium reign of the Lord Jesus and it will be then that the fallen tent of David will be raised up.

You have no place in your eschatology for the return of the Lord Jesus to sit upon His throne and reign so you must somehow get rid of the Lord's words at Matthew 25:31.

The tent of David was not the permanent residence of the Lord.

It was temporary in type as also it is now.

You have not figured that have you.

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

It says God would return and He did.

The "shekinah Glory" filled the New Testament Temple on the day of Pentecost, the Tabernacle of David was the type of that.

That was not speaking of His second coming for Peter has just said--

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

The first coming --

Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger,(John) and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord,(The Father) whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant,(Jesus) whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Mal 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years. (as it occurred in Acts ch 2 onward)

See, you follow the word of men, who have never entered the Tent of David in which was the presence of God.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

We seek a city, not a tent.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.



LA
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
So....you're saying that GOD equivocated thru Peter in these verses?

I've quoted these same verses and so have others with who I agree with concerning interpretation.

You included no interpretation of these verses to prove your point.

I assume you believe that these verses prove that Christ will not reign from David's throne on earth in the future and that Christ is presently reigning from David's throne in heaven.
These verses do not say that.
Peter only says that Christ was raised 'to sit' on David's throne. He does not say that He is presently sitting there. If Peter were to mean that Christ was presently sitting on David's throne it would contradict all other Scripture on the subject.

Christ now reigns over the elect Church.

Peter was saying that the verses in the OT speaking of David, do actually refer to Jesus, not on an OT Throne but the Throne of His Father in Heaven in the Holy City of--

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Neither Christ or any of His Saints will swap the Fathers Heavenly Throne for an earthly throne of David.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

LA
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
It says God would return and He did.

Who is James speaking of here in "bold"?:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things"
(Acts 15:16).​

The Greek word translated "I will return" is in the "future" tense.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Who is James speaking of here in "bold"?:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things"
(Acts 15:16).​

The Greek word translated "I will return" is in the "future" tense.


Yes, and stated in the 7th century BC. What part of that don't you understand. It is therefore not necessarily our future, not when the apostles are clearly saying IT IS WHAT IS GOING ON BEFORE THEM.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
What it meant right then to them was that the prophecy agreed that GOD would bless the nations through their Messiah. They were struggling to understand the details of how He was accomplishing that at that present time.
But, James declares that when GOD had accomplished His mission of taking out of the nations a people for His name, that He[the triune GOD] would return and restore David's regal dynasty.



....by a faulty hermeneutic.



No, it is not referring to Davidic theocracy. it never does. it was never offered or postponed because of belief. It is imagery to help people understand the reign of Christ/kingdom of God but is not that kind of kingdom that you think. Christ is the risen Lord David was talking about in Ps 2, 16 or 110 and the resurrection was his coronation. It is simply not an external, stone and mortar kingdom, nor was it ever to be. The NHNE are not even the same kind of material world as this because God is the light and Christ is the temple.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Yes, and stated in the 7th century BC.

If it started then then why did James, in the first century, believed that His return remained in the future.

You didn't answer my question about this verse:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts 15:16).​

Who is James speaking of here in "bold"?

It is therefore not necessarily our future, not when the apostles are clearly saying IT IS WHAT IS GOING ON BEFORE THEM.

No, James was not saying it was going on before them right then and there. Instead, he believed that this prophecy of Amos will not be fulfilled until after the Lord Jesus returns. He quoted those words in regard to a controversy that had arisen in the early church. There were some in the Jerusalem church who believed that the Gentile believers should be required to be circumcised and to keep the law of Moses. In other words, some believed that the Gentiles should be members of the commonwealth of Israel. However, James quoted Amos in order to demonstrate that when the Lord Jesus returns there will be Gentiles being saved as Gentiles:

"After this I will return...that the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called"
.​

Therefore it was decided that the Gentile believers did not have to be circumcised and did not have to keep the law (Acts 15:24-29).
 

Wick Stick

Well-known member
1 Kings 9 makes it abundantly clear that all these promises to David were continent on his sons and grandsons keeping God's law and not chasing foreign gods.

[1Ki 9:4-7 KJV] 4 And if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, in integrity of heart, and in uprightness, to do according to all that I have commanded thee, [and] wilt keep my statutes and my judgments: 5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel. 6 [But] if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments [and] my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them: 7 Then will I cut off Israel out of the land which I have given them; and this house, which I have hallowed for my name, will I cast out of my sight; and Israel shall be a proverb and a byword among all people:

It would appear that the court historians forgot to mention that detail when they wrote about it in Samuel/Chronicles. Politics at their finest.
 
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