Protecting Yourself With The Law

[ok doser]

Perhaps you don't know the purpose of the law. Is that the problem?

i suspect it is :thumb:

 

[Truster]

Shalom.

Here is one thing that I am aware of, that is not good. I do not want to do this. To obey in truth is one thing. To protect yourself with the Law is another.

If I say that I obey God or preach the Law (even not to the exclusion of grace) and it protects me because people think good of me or it prevents people from seeing sin in me, that is not good. Hopefully there is no sin to begin with. I have wrestled in my life with how the one who is born of God does not sin, and yet a person is a liar if they say that they have not sinned. So I have just repented of any sin that I do not know of, though it would be better to repent of sin that I know of or to not have sin to begin with, which may be the case unless there is past sin that has still not been repented of. I do not know what pretense is in regard to the law. Is this when someone preaches the law but does so to cover up sin? That is not and would not be good. But if you observe and teach the Law, even Torah, that is good. I believe that God and Jesus want us to do so. Yeshua, Jesus, taught the following.

Matthew 5:17-20​

So I guess this is just me recognizing that the Law is not to propt someone up. I know this, but I am saying it because it is in agreement with what I am already saying, even if it is a new thought. If a person preaches the Law and does not admit to personal sin or error, what then? Perhaps this is what we should do, for it is the Law and not us that is being talked about. But if you obey God's commands it is easier to teach them. So I endeavor to continue obeying God's commands and teach them to others so that they can experience the blessing of God found in observance of God's commands, observance of the Law, observance of Torah, that I have found. There are 613 Commandments in Torah, and they are no less God's commands even when a person has been found to be transgressing, or to have transgressed, any one of them. So, we should preach the Law, God's Law, Torah, not without grace, but in truth.

May you have faith in God and understand His grace and obey Him, obey His commandments, in truth, without pretense, whatever pretense is.

Shalom.

Jacob

Wrong thread...my apologies.

 

[Jacob]

Oh, "when you do not commit adultery"....are you saying you never look at a woman in a lustful way or have any untoward thoughts? Do you obey every single sabbath law? Do you follow the dietary laws with all care?

Shalom.

I am Torah observant, if that is what you are asking.

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[Jacob]

I can't believe how many people think they obey God

Shalom.

Has it crossed your mind that some people believe that they do not need to obey God?

Shalom.

Jacob

 

[jamie]

No, he doesn't.

"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." (Hebrews 2:14-15)

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Wait, surely you're not comparing Jewish dietary laws (not eating shellfish, pork, etc. which Jesus rescinded) with universal moral laws are you? (laws that Jesus didn't rescind such as the ones I mentioned above).

WOW....I believe I'm honored somehow.

Nope, I'm not comparing them at all. I was pointing out there are God's laws and there was the Mosaic Laws.

And amongst those Mosaic Laws that were given to the Jews are universal moral laws that are unchangeable, eternal and for all of mankind.

Perhaps you don't know the purpose of the law. Is that the problem?

I haven't had any luck getting anyone to take the Metropolitan Community Church challenge in another thread and I sincerely hope that you'll be the first.

http://mccchurch.org/

It appears that 'inclusive' churches like the MCC don't believe that they're under God's universal moral laws, as things like abortion and homosexuality are openly embraced in their church.

Do the rainbow flag wavers have it right and churches that teach "thou shalt not commit sexual sins" have it all wrong?

It's a simple question, but if you need help in answering it, please do consult with ok doser/patrick jane, as they're real smart when it comes to Christianity.

 

[glorydaz]

"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." (Hebrews 2:14-15)

I know the verse, and I'm telling you that you are misreading the verse if you think satan has the power to take someone's life...which is what you seemed to be saying.

 

[glorydaz]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
Wait, surely you're not comparing Jewish dietary laws (not eating shellfish, pork, etc. which Jesus rescinded) with universal moral laws are you? (laws that Jesus didn't rescind such as the ones I mentioned above).



And amongst those Mosaic Laws that were given to the Jews are universal moral laws that are unchangeable, eternal and for all of mankind.



I haven't had any luck getting anyone to take the Metropolitan Community Church challenge in another thread and I sincerely hope that you'll be the first.

http://mccchurch.org/

It appears that 'inclusive' churches like the MCC don't believe that they're under God's universal moral laws, as things like abortion and homosexuality are openly embraced in their church.

Do the rainbow flag wavers have it right and churches that teach "thou shalt not commit sexual sins" have it all wrong?

It's a simple question, but if you need help in answering it, please do consult with ok doser/patrick jane, as they're real smart when it comes to Christianity.

Good grief....I can see you don't know the purpose of the law. The law does not make men righteous...which seems to be the point you are hung up on.

 

[Nang]

I know the verse, and I'm telling you that you are misreading the verse if you think satan has the power to take someone's life...which is what you seemed to be saying.

Satan holds unregenerate sinners in bondage through their "fear of death." Hebrews 2:15

Faith in Christ removes all such fear; breaking enslavement to sin, death, and the devil.

 

[jamie]

I know the verse, and I'm telling you that you are misreading the verse if you think satan has the power to take someone's life...which is what you seemed to be saying.

Did Satan cause the death of Adam and Eve?

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins*in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:1-2)

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, Satan holds the power of death over the flesh, but not over the Spirit. Jesus died to free us from Satan and to reconcile us to the Father so that we may receive immortality through the Son.

Did Satan cause the death of Adam and Eve?

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins*in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:1-2)

It looks to me like you're trying to cover all your bases on this one.

Satan is blamed in the same way alcohol is blamed for a drunk driving accident.

 

[glorydaz]

Satan holds unregenerate sinners in bondage through their "fear of death." Hebrews 2:15

Faith in Christ removes all such fear; breaking enslavement to sin, death, and the devil.

Which is what I tried to tell her. :idunno:

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Good grief....I can see you don't know the purpose of the law. The law does not make men righteous...which seems to be the point you are hung up on.

When you say "the law", you're referring to the Mosaic Law, which includes the universal moral laws of thou shalt not murder, commit sexual sins, etc. etc.

If the "thou shalt not's" aren't a guide for righteous living, what are?

BTW: the baby murderers and sodomites of the Metropolitan Community Church aren't "hung up" on righteous living and spirituality, will they be joining God in His Kingdom?

Please answer.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

When you say "the law", you're referring to the Mosaic Law, which includes the universal moral laws of thou shalt not murder, commit sexual sins, etc. etc.

If the "thou shalt not's" aren't a guide for righteous living, what are?

BTW: the baby murderers and sodomites of the Metropolitan Community Church aren't "hung up" on righteous living and spirituality, will they be joining God in His Kingdom?

Please answer.

Adultery was punishable by death under the Law you speak of. How did Jesus handle the matter? Also... what is the purpose of the Torah and Moral law in your own understanding... per scripture you embrace?

 

[glorydaz]

When you say "the law", you're referring to the Mosaic Law, which includes the universal moral laws of thou shalt not murder, commit sexual sins, etc. etc.

Actually, it depends on which I'm talking about at the time. The Mosaic Law was a list of those 613 rules and regulations specifically given by Moses, and the Ten commandments were written in stone by the finger of God.

If the "thou shalt not's" aren't a guide for righteous living, what are?

They're a set of rules given to show men what God considers sin. They have no power to make a man righteous, but they are great for helping man see his guilt, and getting him to turn to God and believe.

BTW: the baby murderers and sodomites of the Metropolitan Community Church aren't "hung up" on righteous living and spirituality, will they be joining God in His Kingdom?

Please answer.

Were they to believe the Gospel, they would be saved and their hearts would be purified by the indwelling Spirit. What do you expect from unbelievers? Surely you don't think everyone who claims to be a Christian is actually a true believer?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Adultery was punishable by death under the Law you speak of.

God takes sexual sins seriously (notice I didn't use the past tense).

How did Jesus handle the matter?

He left the penalty phase up to civil authorities, but allowed those who repented of their sins to spend eternity with Him.

Also... what is the purpose of the Torah and Moral law in your own understanding... per scripture you embrace?

The Torah is for Jews, which included their ceremonial, civil and moral laws. The Moral laws (as mentioned in a previous post) are unchangeable, eternal and for all of mankind.

That being said: Please go where no TOL'er has dared to go: Take the MCC challenge and tell me how those who proudly engage in things that God abhors, and promotes those things to others, will spend eternity with Him.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote: Originally posted by aCultureWarrior
BTW: the baby murderers and sodomites of the Metropolitan Community Church aren't "hung up" on righteous living and spirituality, will they be joining God in His Kingdom?

Please answer.

Were they to believe the Gospel, they would be saved and their hearts would be purified by the indwelling Spirit.

They claim that they do.

What do you expect from unbelievers? Surely you don't think everyone who claims to be a Christian is actually a true believer?

What separates the sodomites and baby killers of the Metropolitan Community Church (who believe in the Gospel) from "true believers"?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

God takes sexual sins seriously (notice I didn't use the past tense).



He left the penalty phase up to civil authorities, but allowed those who repented of their sins to spend eternity with Him.



The Torah is for Jews, which included their ceremonial, civil and moral laws. The Moral laws (as mentioned in a previous post) are unchangeable, eternal and for all of mankind.

That being said: Please go where no TOL'er has dared to go: Take the MCC challenge and tell me how those who proudly engage in things that God abhors, and promotes those things to others, will spend eternity with Him.

In reality, Jesus warned us that we should only "cast stones" if we have no sin. In reality, Jesus came for "sinners". In reality, only God is perfectly moral. In reality, the repentant Believer bypasses judgment and is released from the clutches of disobedience upon belief and even further upon death.

When one becomes a Christian, do they become "Like Jesus", or are they dead and imputed with righteousness?

Is a Christian Sinless, and does God teach us to boast that we "sin-less" than the unsaved or struggling?

 

[aCultureWarrior]

In reality, Jesus warned us that we should only "cast stones" if we have no sin.

I see, so according to your twisted view of Scripture, there can be no counselors, therapists, criminal justice system, etc. etc. etc., because everyone is a sinner.

Here's a simple question: How can you love God with all of your heart, mind and soul if you don't acknowledge His Word as the absolute truth and do your best to obey it?

How can you love your neighbor as you love yourself if you can't judge him righteously? (i.e. in a constructive manner, showing him or her that there is a better way).

In reality, Jesus came for "sinners". In reality, only God is perfectly moral. In reality, the repentant Believer bypasses judgment and is released from the clutches of disobedience upon belief and even further upon death.

In reality the repentant Christian does his or her best to obey Christ because he loves His Word.

When one becomes a Christian, do they become "Like Jesus", or are they dead and imputed with righteousness?

The last time I checked, being a "follower" of Christ means that you want to try and be like Him.

Is a Christian Sinless, and does God teach us to boast that we "sin-less" than the unsaved or struggling?

All men sin; the idea is to try and overcome those sinful behaviors and temptations, hence the on-going struggle which diminishes the closer you get to God.

BTW, when can we talk about the MCC? Surely you're not passing up the MCC challenge are you?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I see, so according to your twisted view of Scripture, there can be no counselors, therapists, criminal justice system, etc. etc. etc., because everyone is a sinner.

Here's a simple question: How can you love God with all of your heart, mind and soul if you don't acknowledge His Word as the absolute truth and do your best to obey it?

How can you love your neighbor as you love yourself if you can't judge him righteously? (i.e. in a constructive manner, showing him or her that there is a better way).



In reality the repentant Christian does his or her best to obey Christ because he loves His Word.



The last time I checked, being a "follower" of Christ means that you want to try and be like Him.



All men sin; the idea is to try and overcome those sinful behaviors and temptations, hence the on-going struggle which diminishes the closer you get to God.

BTW, when can we talk about the MCC? Surely you're not passing up the MCC challenge are you?

In a nutshell...

"Be like God" and overcome through our flesh.

Exaltation of self and self election as accusers of the brethren and mankind.