Paul vs. Jesus
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Agape4Robin
Member
:blabla:Gnostic said:
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Agape4Robin
Member
Forget bed....Gnostic said:
Who's truth...
yours?
Caledvwlch
New member
Of course. :box:Lovejoy said:All in good fun.
Lovejoy
Active member
Oh for goodness sake, what difference does it make? Christ says we will not marry or be given in marriage, yet there are hints that the Angels may have copulated with humans, and Paul is not terribly clear on the matter of Spiritual flesh except to say that there will be some. Christ is recognizable as a man in the risen form (his Spirit Body), but I do not know what that means. All I can say is that it is not clear, not important, and your infantile language used in this matter is entirely inappropriate. Weenie? Brotwurst? Good grief.Gnostic said:
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Gnostic
New member
Robin: "Who's truth... yours?"
Yes mine...
The Gospel according to Gnostic (me)
Edited by :crow: after a member complaint about the content. Gnostic, please remember that this is not an "anything goes" site.
Note to the literalist minds within the unconscious collective present here, who can't help themselves: I urge you not to interpret the above scripture literally, neither symbolically, but Abstractly. Then you will be worthy to enter [The Kingdom].
Yes mine...
The Gospel according to Gnostic (me)
Edited by :crow: after a member complaint about the content. Gnostic, please remember that this is not an "anything goes" site.
Note to the literalist minds within the unconscious collective present here, who can't help themselves: I urge you not to interpret the above scripture literally, neither symbolically, but Abstractly. Then you will be worthy to enter [The Kingdom].
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Gnostic
New member
Lovejoy: "Christ says will not marry or be given in marriage..."
That's a nice way of saying sex will be free and "adultery" won't be a sin.
... "yet there are hints that the Angels may have copulated with humans..."
It's no "hint" in the Book of Enoch, rejected by those who didn't like what that book says. And that's the evidence that "Sons of God" don't mind a bit of excitement.
Now everyone please grow up and stop behaving like kids and accept what you know is true. The last will be first indeed.
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That's a nice way of saying sex will be free and "adultery" won't be a sin.
... "yet there are hints that the Angels may have copulated with humans..."
It's no "hint" in the Book of Enoch, rejected by those who didn't like what that book says. And that's the evidence that "Sons of God" don't mind a bit of excitement.
Now everyone please grow up and stop behaving like kids and accept what you know is true. The last will be first indeed.
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Gnostic
New member
Lovejoy: "Christ is recognizable as a man in the risen form (his Spirit Body), but I do not know what that means. All I can say is that it is not clear, not important"
I think it's very clear, and most important.
Paul taught a universal Cosmic Christ who is not flesh but a force that is "in you." Others taught a physically resurrected Christ who asked for a steak to eat to prove he wasn't a spirit. These are two diametrically opposed doctrines. Peter's Church (the Catholics), accepted the physical resurrection, the other is the Gnostic Church (the "Spiritual Christians") and they rejected/reject the physical resurrection as Paul did.
Considering that dead men do not rise from their graves (and such events conveniently only happened in times when video cameras were not available), and considering that only the spiritual Christ can be "in you," and also that Paul's writing on the matter was written prior to the synoptics, we reject the parts of the synoptic gospels which teach a physical resurrection as inferior, as added myths to the true teachings, and as invented doctrines suitable for those who prefer material ideas to the spiritual ideas.
John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
And how much time did he have to do all this, forty days?
Pistis Sophia (from book one of the six "Books of the Savior")
But it happened that after Jesus had risen from the dead he spent eleven years speaking with his disciples.
The Sophia of Jesus Christ
After he rose from the dead, his twelve disciples and seven women continued to be his followers, and went to Galilee onto the mountain called "Divination and Joy". When they gathered together and were perplexed about the underlying reality of the universe and the plan, and the holy providence, and the power of the authorities, and about everything the Savior is doing with them in the secret of the holy plan, the Savior appeared - not in his previous form, but in the invisible spirit. And his likeness resembles a great angel of light.
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I think it's very clear, and most important.
Paul taught a universal Cosmic Christ who is not flesh but a force that is "in you." Others taught a physically resurrected Christ who asked for a steak to eat to prove he wasn't a spirit. These are two diametrically opposed doctrines. Peter's Church (the Catholics), accepted the physical resurrection, the other is the Gnostic Church (the "Spiritual Christians") and they rejected/reject the physical resurrection as Paul did.
Considering that dead men do not rise from their graves (and such events conveniently only happened in times when video cameras were not available), and considering that only the spiritual Christ can be "in you," and also that Paul's writing on the matter was written prior to the synoptics, we reject the parts of the synoptic gospels which teach a physical resurrection as inferior, as added myths to the true teachings, and as invented doctrines suitable for those who prefer material ideas to the spiritual ideas.
John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
And how much time did he have to do all this, forty days?
Pistis Sophia (from book one of the six "Books of the Savior")
But it happened that after Jesus had risen from the dead he spent eleven years speaking with his disciples.
The Sophia of Jesus Christ
After he rose from the dead, his twelve disciples and seven women continued to be his followers, and went to Galilee onto the mountain called "Divination and Joy". When they gathered together and were perplexed about the underlying reality of the universe and the plan, and the holy providence, and the power of the authorities, and about everything the Savior is doing with them in the secret of the holy plan, the Savior appeared - not in his previous form, but in the invisible spirit. And his likeness resembles a great angel of light.
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Agape4Robin
Member
Oh well then..................Gnostic said:
if Gnostic says so................ :kookoo:
Honestly, your cheap attempt at theatrics is quite boring...... :yawn: And I thought I could engage in some real debate with you. :nono:
My mistake! :doh:
Let me ask you this.......how has your god communicated with you? Is there a "holy" book which you have studied?
oly: Other than being without the designation of being neither male or female........what is "it" like? Is it the only god or are there others who can do what "it" cannot?
What are the tenets or doctrines of your religion?
I await with baited breath for your reply.......
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Agape4Robin
Member
The use of extra-biblical "documentation" does not prove your arguement.Gnostic said:
Or did you make these up too?
For the record, you are right though. Dead men do not rise from the dead. :grave:
Jesus did because he was ressurrected. In other words, His life was restored.
I serve a risen Savior which history shows was definatively male!
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Lovejoy
Active member
I disagree emphatically. Not with the concept that Jesus was raised in something other than flesh and blood, but that He was raised into something that could not be recognized on the outside. He is in the resurrection body, something that Paul took pains to describe. Daniel saw something like it, as did John. We will all have it, though some will live with it in torment. Do you deny that God was able to eat a meal with Abraham, wrestle with Jacob, or walk in the Garden with Adam and Eve? And that was the God who was truest Spirit! Jesus is in the body that was sown in flesh and raised into new being. And it is a being that is capable of walking on the New Earth (as will we all). But this is all irrelevant to you, I suppose, as we do not even use the same texts for support, and you pick and choose which parts of Scripture to listen too. As such, this is probably a fruitless line of discussion.Gnostic said:
Agape4Robin
Member
What Lovejoy, here just said!!!!! :BRAVO:Lovejoy said:
:thumb:
Lovejoy
Active member
Thanks. I started to right this huge, properly cited and quoted Scriptural argument when I realized that a gnostic would not even recognize the legitimacy of most of the books that I would have to use, and then just ploped that post down instead. What are you going to do? It isn't even that important, as the nature of Christ is not subject to our logic or even our exegesis. Rather, Jesus is only subject to Himself and His own nature. My best mental picture of Him (in gnostic's case, a picture apparently of nothing) will have no impact on His reality whatsoever. And it will not alter His redemptive power. The only issue, then, is in what state will we spend eternity: as the invisible force put forth by Gnostic, or as the Spiritual Body that I see in Paul's writings?Agape4Robin said:
Agape4Robin
Member
good point.Lovejoy said:
But it doesn't hurt to at least try.
Ya know?
Maybe you will strike a chord with him......
:think:
Agape4Robin
Member
:darwinsm:Lovejoy said:
Ok....you got me......
Gnostic
New member
Greetings Robin,
I have to tell you, your new Avatar does you great justice. You are unquestionably the Goddess of these forums. And while the other lesser gods and goddesses present here are in a constant state of profound slumber, you are indeed very awake. So by all means please continue to go about doing Father's business, and you will make the Holy Angels very happy.
Now, you said: "The use of extra-biblical "documentation" does not prove your arguement."
I'm the opinion that nothing whatsoever can be absolutely proven, ever.
You said: "Or did you make these up too?"
I believe nothing can be made up by human Mind. Every new idea is inspired by the Divine. Consciousness does not have its source in the brain but rather from above. God is the transmitter, and the brain is simply an inferior biological receiver. The communication is transported through the Divine Quantum Circuit. This method of communication is not perfect, it's fuzzy. Sometimes the animal mind hijacks the pure message, and corrupts it. Like the atomic particles, we are all connected to the One. If one dares to take full control of his/her mind, then a Son or Daughter of God is born (the Silver Chord is severed), and a new creation is emanated. Upon death, rather than being thrown into hell for recycling, the new creation sits beside God's throne for some very serious fun. Now what does your Bible say on the matter?
You said: "Is it the only god or are there others who can do what "it" cannot?"
Well, like in your Christianity, I have the obvious three Gods (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), with this difference:
Father: The Unspeakable Unbegotten Incomprehensible Absolute.
Mother (Holy Spirit): Creative Goddess, Mother of the Holy Angels, Light of Creation, Provider of Gnosis, and Queen of Time-Space.
Son (Christ): A Finite Aeonic Emanation of the Father-Mother, Cosmic Savior, and Cool Dude.
But that's just for starters. There are at least thirty-five Aeons (Gods/Goddesses) that I know of for sure. I'd say the actual number of them is huge. The Angels have admitted they're not sure of the number however they do optimistically speak of "The Infinities." Hey, maybe down here "Less is more", but up there it's definitely "More is more."
You said: "I serve a risen Savior which history shows was definatively male!"
I too have a Soter, however he was not risen since he was never dead since an Eternal Divine Being, such as the Christ, cannot die, ever. But I also have a mortal Teacher/Savior who was Jesus, and yes, he most certainly was male. And being male, he didn't mind a good woman. Therefore it was quite fitting for him to be united to his consort, the Holy Mary Magdalene. This earthy and very secret marriage (Sacred marriage in the Garden) was a reflection of the Cosmic events which have been unfolding since the creation of the universe. The Bridegroom unites to his Bride (both physically and spiritually). I tell you the truth, faith without sacred sex is dead. Now what does your Bible say on the matter? For answers I can recommend beginning with the most Holy book, The Song of Songs. It's an excellent reference on the subject, and most reliable since of all sixty-six books it's the only one that is truly the Infallible Word of God.
*
I have to tell you, your new Avatar does you great justice. You are unquestionably the Goddess of these forums. And while the other lesser gods and goddesses present here are in a constant state of profound slumber, you are indeed very awake. So by all means please continue to go about doing Father's business, and you will make the Holy Angels very happy.
Now, you said: "The use of extra-biblical "documentation" does not prove your arguement."
I'm the opinion that nothing whatsoever can be absolutely proven, ever.
You said: "Or did you make these up too?"
I believe nothing can be made up by human Mind. Every new idea is inspired by the Divine. Consciousness does not have its source in the brain but rather from above. God is the transmitter, and the brain is simply an inferior biological receiver. The communication is transported through the Divine Quantum Circuit. This method of communication is not perfect, it's fuzzy. Sometimes the animal mind hijacks the pure message, and corrupts it. Like the atomic particles, we are all connected to the One. If one dares to take full control of his/her mind, then a Son or Daughter of God is born (the Silver Chord is severed), and a new creation is emanated. Upon death, rather than being thrown into hell for recycling, the new creation sits beside God's throne for some very serious fun. Now what does your Bible say on the matter?
You said: "Is it the only god or are there others who can do what "it" cannot?"
Well, like in your Christianity, I have the obvious three Gods (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), with this difference:
Father: The Unspeakable Unbegotten Incomprehensible Absolute.
Mother (Holy Spirit): Creative Goddess, Mother of the Holy Angels, Light of Creation, Provider of Gnosis, and Queen of Time-Space.
Son (Christ): A Finite Aeonic Emanation of the Father-Mother, Cosmic Savior, and Cool Dude.
But that's just for starters. There are at least thirty-five Aeons (Gods/Goddesses) that I know of for sure. I'd say the actual number of them is huge. The Angels have admitted they're not sure of the number however they do optimistically speak of "The Infinities." Hey, maybe down here "Less is more", but up there it's definitely "More is more."
You said: "I serve a risen Savior which history shows was definatively male!"
I too have a Soter, however he was not risen since he was never dead since an Eternal Divine Being, such as the Christ, cannot die, ever. But I also have a mortal Teacher/Savior who was Jesus, and yes, he most certainly was male. And being male, he didn't mind a good woman. Therefore it was quite fitting for him to be united to his consort, the Holy Mary Magdalene. This earthy and very secret marriage (Sacred marriage in the Garden) was a reflection of the Cosmic events which have been unfolding since the creation of the universe. The Bridegroom unites to his Bride (both physically and spiritually). I tell you the truth, faith without sacred sex is dead. Now what does your Bible say on the matter? For answers I can recommend beginning with the most Holy book, The Song of Songs. It's an excellent reference on the subject, and most reliable since of all sixty-six books it's the only one that is truly the Infallible Word of God.
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Gnostic
New member
Hi Dear Robin, you said: "how has your god communicated with you?"
No. My Supreme God is completely silent. He-She-It doesn't say anything. Never said a thing, and never will. But the Angels and the Prophets are loudmouths and once they start you can't fit a word in sideways.
You said: "Is there a "holy" book which you have studied?"
Yes, the Bible for a start, and of course the LOGOS which the Catholics tried to destroy but were not so successful. And many other books. My religion is not about burning books, it's about gaining knowledge.
You said: "Other than being without the designation of being neither male or female........what is "it" like? Is it the only god or are there others who can do what "it" cannot?"
"IT" is unspeakable. It has no height, no depth, no nothing. Indeed IT is not even a being. In other words, whatever human mind is able to conceive, that is not what IT is. In this way, my God is completely protected from the inferior perception of the human mind. We cannot ever hope to comprehend IT, ever. However in the inferior religions, God is "this" and "that" and does "this" and "that" and displays certain behavioral characteristics which are altogether very human. No one can accuse us of making God in our image.
You said: "What are the tenets or doctrines of your religion?"
They are somewhat similar to yours. We're not only Christians, but we're the very first ones. The difference is that my religion deals with the heavenly things and never the earthly. It was given to the Hebrews among other things the revelations of the one God, to the orthodox Christians the revelation of the Father, to the Gnostics the revelation of the heavenly things. Consider...
John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
Well of course he didn't waste time explaining things to those who called him demon possessed. He took his knowledge to those who could comprehend. The first being Mary Magdalene (the leader of the seven woman Apostles), and then followed by Judas Iscariot (who did not betray anyone), then James, Thomas, John, and others. Right at the bottom of the hierarchy was Peter who actually never woke up from his deep sleep and went on to Rome. The rest is history.
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No. My Supreme God is completely silent. He-She-It doesn't say anything. Never said a thing, and never will. But the Angels and the Prophets are loudmouths and once they start you can't fit a word in sideways.
You said: "Is there a "holy" book which you have studied?"
Yes, the Bible for a start, and of course the LOGOS which the Catholics tried to destroy but were not so successful. And many other books. My religion is not about burning books, it's about gaining knowledge.
You said: "Other than being without the designation of being neither male or female........what is "it" like? Is it the only god or are there others who can do what "it" cannot?"
"IT" is unspeakable. It has no height, no depth, no nothing. Indeed IT is not even a being. In other words, whatever human mind is able to conceive, that is not what IT is. In this way, my God is completely protected from the inferior perception of the human mind. We cannot ever hope to comprehend IT, ever. However in the inferior religions, God is "this" and "that" and does "this" and "that" and displays certain behavioral characteristics which are altogether very human. No one can accuse us of making God in our image.
You said: "What are the tenets or doctrines of your religion?"
They are somewhat similar to yours. We're not only Christians, but we're the very first ones. The difference is that my religion deals with the heavenly things and never the earthly. It was given to the Hebrews among other things the revelations of the one God, to the orthodox Christians the revelation of the Father, to the Gnostics the revelation of the heavenly things. Consider...
John 3:12
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
Well of course he didn't waste time explaining things to those who called him demon possessed. He took his knowledge to those who could comprehend. The first being Mary Magdalene (the leader of the seven woman Apostles), and then followed by Judas Iscariot (who did not betray anyone), then James, Thomas, John, and others. Right at the bottom of the hierarchy was Peter who actually never woke up from his deep sleep and went on to Rome. The rest is history.
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