Palestine? Palestinians? A 20th Century Creation

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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I understand that, but just trying to reconcile that with this



Seems here your understanding is God created Jesus and then Jesus created everything else. Yet in Genesis 1, we definitely see God saying Himself thru His own mouth Let there be this and that.

there is much to consider my sister. I pray we both search the scriptures daily and learn from God's inspired and Holy word.

Good Night for now.

I understand what you are saying. That's the best I can come up with.

I will ask JW how they reconcile these since they believe Jesus is first born of all creation too.

thank you for civil discussion.

good night:)

This discussion is an unexpected joy to see!

Both of you have my deepest respect for the way you both are expressing matters!

#Amazing!
#Beautiful
#God Bless!!!!!
 

jamie

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Colossians 1:15 (New International Version)
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

Yes, he is now the image of the invisible God and the firstborn of all creation in what context?

Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Jesus is the firstborn of all creation with regard to being born of the Spirit as an invisible being in the image of God.

The term "firstborn" means there are more to follow.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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This would weigh in heavily, but your assertion that Literal Israel was never elected is contrary to direct scripture cited to literal Israel. I will cite some of it in my more studied response.
You will have to recast the meaning of "elect" to some non-soteriological sense to overcome the common meaning of "election unto faith". This is a salvific matter. If you go down this path, you will also have to show that a true believer's faith can be lost. Ultimately, then, yours becomes the minority view.

AMR
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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I rarely weigh in publicly on political matters. These are personal matters that I prefer to keep to myself and within my family.

AMR

Greetings AMR,

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory for ever and ever.

I thanked you for this comment because it is a double edged sword. You have managed to hold your cards to your chest, while you reveal them at the same time.

They are held to your chest in an enigmatic fashion by not answering the question directly.

I promised to not be sarcastic, but I can be up front. Within moments of addressing me, you cited $1,000,000 theological words that tend to confound people. Had I not been raised in a semi-Calvinist atmosphere, by a semi-Calvinist theologian, I would be confounded. : )

I almost fell into the pit of theological duel and self promotion, but I "just woke up".

You have politicized Literal Israel in your words. This would be like calling the Bible a "Political" tool. This is why I can state that you have answered my question. I promised to site my "99 theses" against Calvinism if you are teaching "Children of God" to rise against her.

If I begin to build theological explaination for the Land election of literal Israel and the election of the Jews, I would become guilty of creating complex commentary on the matter. Brother [MENTION=12870]steko[/MENTION] said it best when he commented on the "Confessions of a Christian Zionist" thread.

I Link to Brother Steko's Quote I

You don't have to answer to any of us who support Israel and the Jews for your challenge of Literal Israel being important to God.

I read every word of your referenced posts towards me, as well as the provided links, and I recognized that you were setting me up to contend with the very verbiage of Calvinism (reformed theology). Your one saving grace in the matter is that you have a spiritual theology that supersedes (reformed theology). In your words, I see that your carnal skeleton of theological understanding is reformed theology, but you also use verbiage that contradicts "reformed theology".

My father knew the theology of his denominational church well, but his spiritual actions and words ran contrary to the implications of the theology.

I'll record him in this by using his actions as a wonderful example of what I mean.

- He once performed a funeral for a family who's son had blown his own head off. Instead of being condemning, he preached about Samsons final act of suicide. He then turned to the "Heros of Faith" chapter in Hebrews and pointed out Samson's name. Even the most hard hearted people kept their mouths shut towards him and the boys family, because of his sermon. He had brought peace to a situation that was utterly horrible.

My point?... There is the carnal theology that we learn and build on through a lifetime. In stark contrast, there are the Spiritual lessons and extensions of Love that we gain and perform more spectacularly every passing day, because of the influence of God.

I have met many people here that understand God's plight for Israel and the Jews. I've even met a few Jews here. [MENTION=5868]chair[/MENTION], [MENTION=13123]Elia[/MENTION], [MENTION=10340]Ben Masada[/MENTION] for example. I am not the sole spokesperson on this matter. We all are. We are unified by God and His words in scripture.

By Christian theology, Israel of the covenant that was recorded in the desert on a mountain, was widowed the day Christ died. I can't help but be driven to a passage in James that defines "Pure Religion, undefiled." And what of the Jews that deny Christ and are staunch enemies of the gospel? Jesus Loved his enemies. He commanded us to Love our enemies. If the "Enemies of the Gospel" are beloved for their ancestors by God, what right do we have to be any other way?

I will not be coaxed into arguing within the frame of the Westminster Confessions of Faith nor Calvin's institutes.

I'm going to quote your very signature AMR.
"⚠ WARNING: Embedded link content that may be in my post above or the 20+ links my sig below are not for the faint of heart.
Founder, Reformed Theology Institute
AMR's Randomata Blog — Learn Reformed Doctrine
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Christian, catholic, Calvinist, confessional, Presbyterian (PCA).
Lex orandi, lex credenda: everyone is a Calvinist on their knees.
The best TOL Social Group: here.
If your username appears in blue and you have over 500 posts:
Why?"

"Everyone is a Calvinist on their knees"
"Learn Reformed Doctrine"

I now point out that [MENTION=7292]Nang[/MENTION], [MENTION=6223]beloved57[/MENTION], [MENTION=15399]Nanja[/MENTION] are some of your most prolific disciples. I would like you to count how many times they condemn other users to Hell for not agreeing with Calvin's institutes.

Now...... [MENTION=18375]Evil.Eye.<(I)>[/MENTION] walks up to the house of Calvinism with a piece of paper, hammer and nail. He looks at its well trafficked door and places the piece of paper as high as he can reach. He takes the single nail and pins the top of the piece of paper to the door. The Hammer swings back and... "Bang, Bang, Bang". The 6 Theses hang on the door as simple, irrefutable scriptural truths.


1: Is God a promoter of Sin? Absolutely Not
2: Let no man teach you
3: Let your yes be yes and your no be no, anything else is from the evil one
4: God shows no favoritism
5: God is Love
6: Love knows no limit to its endurance, no end to its trust, no fading of its hope; it can outlast anything. It is, in fact, the one thing that still stands when all else has fallen.


....... Simple, Straight from scripture and Fully Defensible by every word of scripture.

I rally all of my fellow Israel and Jew supporters now and say:

"We may stand in corners alone and fight heroically on this spiritual battlefield, but we are truely the strongest when we all join hands as brothers and sisters in Christ and rise against the Anti-Semitic tide that has been present since the days of Jacob."


Before you contradict my claim of theological anti-semitism by claiming to not be "anti-Semitic" and infact loving towards the Jews as people; I am on record as citing a historical nod towards the deep violence that has occurred over the last 2000 years against Jews that was incited by Christian theology that teaches the insignificance of the Jews by birth heritage that hold to old traditions.
 
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meshak

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I now point out that [MENTION=7292]Nang[/MENTION], [MENTION=17677]Crucible[/MENTION], [MENTION=6223]beloved57[/MENTION], [MENTION=15399]Nanja[/MENTION] are some of your most prolific disciples. I would like you to count how many times they condemn other users to Hell for not agreeing with Calvin's institutes.

Please forgive me for butting in.

It is fact that the Calvinists are not the only ones doing it. MAD Christians which you seem to subscribe, are notorious for doing it too.

And you seem to be setting up strawman argument.

Most churches support Israel and Jews. That's why Mid east count west as their arch enemy.

You use OT to support your claim, mainly. I don't know if Paul's position because it is not clear to me. Many Christians believe Paul treat Jews exception.

But when you read Jesus' word, Jesus does not play any favoritism. His word is emphasize on faithfulness mostly.

Christians are supposed to be Jesus' followers, and should focus on His teachings and practice according to His word.

thank you.

blessings.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Please forgive me for butting in.

It is fact that the Calvinists are not the only ones doing it. MAD Christians which you seem to prescribe, are notorious for doing it too.

And you seem to be setting up strawman argument.

Most churches support Israel and Jews. That's why Mid east count west as their arch enemy.

You use OT to support your claim, mainly. I don't know if Paul's position because it is not clear to me. Many Christians believe Paul treat Jews exception.

But when you read Jesus' word, Jesus does not play any favoritism. His word is emphasize on faithfulness mostly.

Christians are supposed to be Jesus' followers, and should focus on His teachings and practice according to His word.

thank you.

blessings.

Sister,

God bless you and May God forever bless and teach you throughout all your days and to eternity.

#Peace
#I have written what I have written and the words speak what they must.
#Read my fourth charge against Calvinism.

I believe we are all important to God! : )
That is the point!
 

jamie

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And scripture describes Jerusalem as spiritual Sodom and Egypt. Those who support Israel as she now is are doing the Jews a disservice.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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And scripture describes Jerusalem as spiritual Sodom and Egypt. Those who support Israel as she now is are doing the Jews a disservice.

You didn't read the whole story yet. Did you find your way to Hosea? Also, have you managed to do a study on the word Zion?

Also, you continually ignore Joel 3:2

Tell me your opinions once you've pieced together the whole story with the ENTIRE Bible.
 

meshak

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Joel 3:2


Joel 3:2



I will also gather all nations,

And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat;

And I cwill enter into judgment with them there

On account of My people, My heritage Israel,

Whom they have scattered among the nations;

They have also divided up My land.

You see, this is God's judgment. God gave Jesus authority to judge, not us.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Then why do you use the scripture to go against Jesus' word?

If you believed that Jesus is God, you would see this as Christ's judgment. You would see that He is honoring His promises and liberating Israel, despite the final condemnation and false witness the Sanhedrin brought to Him, according to His Will.

There would be much insight for you in paralleling Jesus' words in Matthew 23:37 with Deuteronomy 32:11-12

#John 10:30 cross referenced with Deuteronomy 6:4

Lastly..

#Isaiah 43:11 and

Romans 10:

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:

9 that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Who's name sister?

10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

11 It is just as the Scripture says: “Everyone who believes in Him will not be put to shame.” Jeremiah 17:7 (That's JHVH in Jeremiah)

12 For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: The same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on Him,

13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Who's Name Saves Sister?

Sister, read this until you fully understand it, then look in verse 13 of Romans 10 in a New World Translation.
 
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