Open Closure

[freelight]

My typical mannerism is to agree... however... I came here because of Israel. Christian Anti-Semitism and denial of God's desire to honor His Promises to Israel is rooted in the "false" understanding of what "Spiritual Israel" actually means. It has become the cornerstone of replacement theology.

Daqq knew what lines to cross to make this possible and unfortunately I have been wielding sword against my friend and brother because of this matter.

I love what you have written and I knew you would be a voice of reason in this matter. I have accomplished what I was trying to accomplish, but Daqq and myself fighting was not my desire. I will avoid duplicity on my part and simply say...

With Daqq embracing replacement theology and myself apposing it... it was inevitable.

No worries bro. :thumb:

I know there's alot invested in some of the various Zionist or spiritual Jew 'theories' out there,...heck...look at the black hebrew movements claiming to the real Jews, preaching hard in the streets, and even among those black Isreal groups,...debate over HOW to pronounce the divine name prevails,....hey,...its just another day in theologyland - as far as 'spiritual Israel' goes,...I take the universal view,....I think Paul does too,..even if you differentiate the national Israel with a newly grafted in part of 'Israel' by way of converted Gentiles,...all are JOINING the CHRIST BODY. - it is interesting though when current Orthodox Judaism will have a heart and mind to accept 'Christians' and their 'gospel' or when Orthodox Christians will embrace Jews and their Judaism, and IF such is even possible, since these two are very opposed in key doctrines. Its gonna take a miracle to see a unified community of Israel, that includes people of all tribes, races and languages.

 

[daqq]

With Daqq embracing replacement theology and myself apposing it... it was inevitable.

Again, that is you, not me. I have no land inheritance. It is YOU who believes you are going to come back and rule from Jerusalem for a thousand years in a global world domination physical empire where everyone is going to be forced to believe what you believe. That is Judas Iscariot physical kingdom theology and you have already expressed your own replacement theology as explained previously herein. You believe your gentile church replaced Israel from 70AD until 1948AD and you also believe your gentile church is coming back to take over Jerusalem and rule from there for a thousand years.

If that isn't replacement theology I don't know what is . . . :rotfl:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

No worries bro. :thumb:

I know there's alot invested in some of the various Zionist or spiritual Jew 'theories' out there,...heck...look at the black hebrew movements claiming to the real Jews, preaching hard in the streets, and even among those black Isreal groups,...debate over HOW to pronounce the divine name prevails,....hey,...its just another day in theologyland - as far as 'spiritual Israel' goes,...I take the universal view,....I think Paul does too,..even if you differentiate the national Israel with a newly grafted in part of 'Israel' by way of converted Gentiles,...all are JOINING the CHRIST BODY. - it is interesting though when current Orthodox Judaism will have a heart and mind to accept 'Christians' and their 'gospel' or when Orthodox Christians will embrace Jews and their Judaism, and IF such is even possible, since these two are very opposed in key doctrines. Its gonna take a miracle to see a unified community of Israel, that includes people of all tribes, races and languages.

You see the super big picture...

The timing of the matter that you are discussing is misunderstood by many. Many think "all is one" now. This is the heart of the misunderstanding. I would lay my life down in Christ's Name, beside Daqq as a fellow believer. But on this matter... I must travel the coarse I am impressed to travel.

: )

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Again, that is you, not me. I have no land inheritance. It is YOU who believes you are going to come back and rule from Jerusalem for a thousand years in a global world domination physical empire where everyone is going to be forced to believe what you believe. That is Judas Iscariot physical kingdom theology and you have already expressed your own replacement theology as explained previously herein. You believe your gentile church replaced Israel from 70AD until 1948AD and you also believe your gentile church is coming back to take over Jerusalem and rule from there for a thousand years.

If that isn't replacement theology I don't know what is . . . :rotfl:

No... Luke 21:24: Rm. 11:25

You have clearly misunderstood me.

It is not I who desire to rule.

Only ONE is fit to rule... Revelation 21:22; John 10:30; John 14:8-9

My best answer to your false charges is to put my answer to Crucible, on this matter, in Spoiler format.

Spoiler

The issue with Calvinism... one of many... is that it understands the fulfillment of the Law of Moses and gathers the separation of the covenants... but it misses the bigger picture. A Covenant is a promise. The big two are not the only "covenants" of God. And further more... the spiritual realm has been conquered by Christ, but the Physical realm remains unconquered.

Jesus did this so we may be born and be saved through belief. We obtain instant salvation upon belief and a sense of "election" "through" Jesus. He is the Elect fulfillment of the covenant of Moses. But... he has not closed the Physical rebellion yet... thus Moses and Jesus remain.

Jesus emphasized this when He stated that the unmerciful will be judged by Moses. His promises to Israel are still valid. You don't "replace" Israel... you are counted a small "part" of it by GRACE. Jesus, King of the Jews, saves us through His obedience. In this sense... the New Covenant is an extension of the old covenant. If you "COMPLETELY" denounce the Promise to Israel... you actually invalidate Christ's work.

You would have to actually be Christ to Be Israel! But, you are not actually Israel! You are "In" Christ. He... Israels fulfillment... is our head. In Him is Israel and the Body of Christ. But, we are the Gentile, Body of Christ! Israel is still ISRAEL!

The Earthly hasn't passed away yet!

You denounce the pre-ascention dialogue that begins in Acts 1:6

Note Jesus' answer... he binds his return to Israel!

If you don't actually address my points here... I will begin to lump you in with [MENTION=3267]GodsTruth[/MENTION], who is a current waste of time, due to her unscriptural twisting of the gospel.

You discount [MENTION=10]Jerry Shugart[/MENTION] so rapidly! He is merely quoting scripture till he is blue in the face and the scripturally blind are simply arguing back without listening!

The bottom line... you think you are saved by election, when you are only saved by faith. You blaspheme this faith by ignoring Rm. 11:20-36 ! You are literally being Arrogant towards Earthly Israel and deeming it more carnal than yourself, while you claim to be "Spiritual" Israel. You are essentially setting up a date with Moses!

Incidentally... you throw the word "cuck" around, when this means the husband of an unfaithful woman. Our Lord Jesus has two brides that are to be unified into one, at the close of the Physical age. One of them is Israel and she was unfaithful to Him, but then again... so is the BOC! There are false alters of men within the BOC that make us filthier than Israel! We are reliant on Jesus alone. You pray at one of those false alters and dare to point at your sister Bride/Widow. Are you mocking our Lord and God Jesus Christ now?

And... on works based Salvation being false... it wouldn't "kill" you to understand this...

Spoiler

This is one of the most wonderful passages of scripture!

Paul was known to be a traveling "tent maker". A beautiful point about this matter is that the desert "Tabernacle" was a tent. It was collapsed and moved "throughout" the journey's of post Exodus Israel.

I buried a verse by verse contextual and cross referenced work up to (2 Cor. 5:16) in the following spoiler format. I created it to gather the sharpest articulation of what 2 Cor. 5:16 means to me, possible for me.

Spoiler

The first four verses (2 Cor. 5:1-4) build on an allegory or analogy of our "Fleshly" bodies being like temporary, Earthly tents that cause us to cry out in desire for our "heavenly" tents.

The following four verses (2 Cor. 5:4-8) emphasize that the "Spirit of Messiah" (Rm. 8:9) that indwells our "groaning" tents is a sort of "guaranty" or "Promise" that we will inherit those "heavenly" "tents" as surely as Christ displayed His before the ascension we "watch" in the first chapter of Acts.

The next three verses (2 Cor. 5:9-11) can be absolute crack-cocaine to the works based group... because it speaks of the "judgment seat" of Christ and "evaluation" of "good" or "bad" works. Yet, Paul has already eluded to death that is "symbolized" by baptism. We "die" and the "work" of Jesus "stands" in our place. In this allegory... analogy... we see that the Spirit of Christ dwells in us and the "flesh" of Christ surrounds us like a "Wedding Garment". The catch is that per Verses (2 Cor. 1-4) we see that in the eyes of carnal wisdom, we are still trapped in these "groaning" tents.

The. ... "alive but dead"... "dead but alive" verbiage really begins to... wait for it...

flesh out now... #pun

The next verses that lead up to the "excellent talking point" really deserve individual attention.

(2 Cor. 5:12) directly addresses the idea that this scriptural passage is an answer to those who "boast" in... appearance (flesh)... (their temporary... groaning tent)... and not heart (Christ Eph. 3:17... which results in John 14 - 16 & 1 John)

(2 Cor. 5:13) colorfully insinuates that we sound "MAD" (or crazy) for God, but keep a "sound mind" to have an answer for those who need it for themselves or to answer others.

(2 Cor. 5:14-15) Contains the inspiration for one of the greatest horror movie lines ever spoken... while... back to the point... uses the word "power" (Love) in a way that eludes to (1 Cor. 1:17). We judge no one, because to us... the metaphorically dead in carnal flesh though alive in Christ... view all as dead but alive, because Christ Loves and died for ALL and rose again for ALL.

Now...

Our (temples) of God 1 Cor. 3:16, are perishing. To work on them is absolutely fruitless. To judge other people's (temples) by their (fleshly) righteous or visible presence of (sin) is foolishness. Our (Tents) are temporary and we have the (1 Cor. 15) assurance (Guarantee) of having the sinless type body of Christ (2 Cor. 5:4-5) after death, or upon witnessing the final "Day of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) & (Luke 23:43).

We have biblical revelation of the presence of God (John 1:14) and a hint at what our "heavenly" "temples" will be. (Lk. 24:30-31). But... now... the Spirt of Christ dwells within us (Romans 8:9: John 14:15-31, 15:12), though we do not have the physical presence of YHWH with us as we read about in the Gospels and Acts 1 (Acts 1:1-12). We see to Christ within our hearts and towards the "Hope" of Christ within ALL humanity, while overlooking the state of ALL human flesh.

We are merely beggars (Mt. 18:27), declared royalty(1 John 3:1), by the King of kings (Revelation 19:16), that are blessed to share "The Kings Bread" (Lk. 22:19), that other beggars like ourselves might share in our joy (Mt. 6:19-21)

The greatest part... is that the presence of our King will be with us one day (Revelation 21:22 & Zechariah 14:4)

 

[meshak]

Think about this Meshak. If you sow absolute truth far and wide, and ten people hear it, and double check what you said against the scriptures, and those ten people believe and are changed: you then have ten children in the faith even if you do not know them in person as in such a place like this. And if those ten people go and do the same you would then have an hundred children. That means you would have produced fruit in the kingdom an hundredfold, (because if you have absolute truth you would no doubt be sharing Messiah by way his Testimony and his and our Father). Now therefore, if you have an hundred children, then the truth which you shared with them will grow in them because the Seed is the Word, (so long as you preach the Word which is the absolute truth). You therefore will live through those children, and their children, by what you have shared in love. You might even end up with a thousand children and live for a thousand years.

I agree, that's why I said you have a patience

 

[daqq]

No... Luke 21:24: Rm. 11:25

You have clearly misunderstood me.

It is not I who desire to rule.

Only ONE is fit to rule... Revelation 21:22; John 10:30; John 14:8-9

My best answer to your false charges is to put my answer to Crucible, on this matter, in Spoiler format.

And... on works based Salvation being false... it wouldn't "kill" you to understand this...

I do not see the spoiler stuff but already read it anyway and it does not change anything except that now I see that you are attempting to place me under the judgment of Moshe. I eat with Moshe on almost a daily basis: who are you? You simply have no clue what you are now rambling about. Moshe lives in me because the words he wrote live in me. You just don't get it because you see all things according to the flesh. Have you not heard enough times? The flesh profits absolutely nothing. And who said that Elohim is going to ever make the whole entire world pristine and sinless like you imagine? You again are taking prophetic poetry and making it into some freaky literal impossible paradise dream world that is never going to happen because that is not what the Prophets spoke about. The kingdom of Elohim is within you. That fact is never ever going to change because, as Yeshua says in three different Gospel accounts, "The heavens and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Why do you refuse to believe his words when he makes such clear emphatic statements?

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of Elohim should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual-observation:
21 Neither shall they say, "Look, over here!" or, "Look, over there!" for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you!

Matthew 24:20-26
20 But pray that your flight be not in foul weather, neither in Shabbat:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, neither ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be delivered: but for the sake of the chosen those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if anyone shall say to you, "Behold, here is the Messiah", or "Over there", believe it not!
24 For there shall arise false Messiahs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that if possible they shall deceive even the chosen.
25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
26 Wherefore if they shall say to you, "Behold, he is in the desert!" go not forth, [or] "Behold, he is in the chambers!" believe it not!

Mark 13:21-23
21 And then if anyone shall say to you, "Behold, here is the Messiah!" or, "Behold, he is over there!" believe him not!
22 For false Messiahs and false prophets shall arise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if possible, even the chosen.
23 But take heed to yourselves: behold, I have foretold you all things!

And the above commandments are NEVER going to pass away:

Matthew 24:35 (Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)
35 The heavens and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

You do not believe the Testimony of Yeshua because you do not hear what he actually says.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I do not see the spoiler stuff but already read it anyway and it does not change anything

Spoiler

except that now I see that you are attempting to place me under the judgment of Moshe. I eat with Moshe on almost a daily basis: who are you? You simply have no clue what you are now rambling about. Moshe lives in me because the words he wrote live in me. You just don't get it because you see all things according to the flesh. Have you not heard enough times? The flesh profits absolutely nothing. And who said that Elohim is going to ever make the whole entire world pristine and sinless like you imagine? You again are taking prophetic poetry and making it into some freaky literal impossible paradise dream world that is never going to happen because that is not what the Prophets spoke about. The kingdom of Elohim is within you. That fact is never ever going to change because, as Yeshua says in three different Gospel accounts, "The heavens and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." Why do you refuse to believe his words when he makes such clear emphatic statements?

Luke 17:20-21
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of Elohim should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual-observation:
21 Neither shall they say, "Look, over here!" or, "Look, over there!" for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you!

Matthew 24:20-26
20 But pray that your flight be not in foul weather, neither in Shabbat:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, neither ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be delivered: but for the sake of the chosen those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if anyone shall say to you, "Behold, here is the Messiah", or "Over there", believe it not!
24 For there shall arise false Messiahs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that if possible they shall deceive even the chosen.
25 Behold, I have told you beforehand.
26 Wherefore if they shall say to you, "Behold, he is in the desert!" go not forth, [or] "Behold, he is in the chambers!" believe it not!

Mark 13:21-23
21 And then if anyone shall say to you, "Behold, here is the Messiah!" or, "Behold, he is over there!" believe him not!
22 For false Messiahs and false prophets shall arise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if possible, even the chosen.
23 But take heed to yourselves: behold, I have foretold you all things!

And the above commandments are NEVER going to pass away:

Matthew 24:35 (Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)
35 The heavens and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

You do not believe the Testimony of Yeshua because you do not hear what he actually says.

Daqq...

My verbiage about Moses was to Crucible and it was in warning, not condemnation. I even call Crucible my brother in Christ... which is far more difficult than calling you... my friend... my brother in Messiah.

As far as all of your other rhetoric... I believe we have both expressed enough that this is becoming circular.

You have used a phrase which proves I'm not a liar... I scripturally expounded on the matter in an earlier post HERE.

"Testimony of Yeshua"... You indeed de-personified The Holy Spirit into a force of "mindset" or "divine imparted teaching". You have made Him an "it" or "thing"... with your words, thus clearing me of your charge that I am a liar.

I'm disappearing for a bit, because fighting with a friend sucks. It is best you have time to vent and cool. I have never and never would call you "void of the Holy Spirit", or on a path to be harshly judged by Moses.

I agree to disagree with you and call you my friend forever.

Just because you're "wrong" on certain matters, doesn't mean I can judge you. [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] , I've been wrong before. (Once)

: )

# Later

 

[meshak]

[/COLOR]You do not believe the Testimony of Yeshua because you do not hear what he actually says.

You know Madist says His word is just for the Jews.

So they cannot do anything wrong with that kind of faith.

 

[Tambora]

You know Madist says His word is just for the Jews.

That is an outright lie, Meshak.
No MADist here has ever said that.
Not a one.

Your many lies are piling up, Meshak.

 

[marhig]

That is an outright lie, Meshak.
No MADist here has ever said that.
Not a one.

Your many lies are piling up, Meshak.

No it's not a lie, that's what you all say, that the teachings of Jesus and his apostles are for the Jews, the kingdom gospel as you call it. And Paul has a separate gospel the grace gospel for the gentiles, which the MADS follow.

How is she lying? when this is what MADS say they believe thus making the teachings of Jesus of non effect to them. Many times I've heard " that's not for us, that's the kingdom gospel for the Jews"?

 

[marhig]

You see the super big picture...

The timing of the matter that you are discussing is misunderstood by many. Many think "all is one" now. This is the heart of the misunderstanding. I would lay my life down in Christ's Name, beside Daqq as a fellow believer. But on this matter... I must travel the coarse I am impressed to travel.

: )

With respect EE, you should be laying down your life already!

What do you think it is to be a living sacrifice? Or to die the death? Or to lay down our life for our friends. Or to live by the will of God? What did Jesus mean when he did if you do not take up your cross, you are not worthy of me. Or deny yourself, take up your cross and follow me?

As for spiritual Israel, I'm wondering what do you think the new Jerusalem is?

Thanks

 

[marhig]

Core JW Doctrines...

1) God is only the Father... It is idolatry to worship the Son or ascribe equality to the Son with the Father

2) The Holy Spirit is a "thing" and not (Rm. 8:9)

3) Jesus is not equal to the Father and is not the "Word" become Flesh as John 1 and 1 John say

4) Spiritual Israel

5) All other beliefs are dangerous and make up "Mystery Babylon"

6) The Bible was misinterpreted, thus complex reinterpretation is required.

And Daqq... I never retreat... I desire Mercy over Sacrifice... I learned that from YHWH, who says such here... (Hosea 6:6 & Mt. 9:13)

1. I have no problem worshipping Christ Jesus, but not as God, there is one God as he's the father.

And before you say that we are to worship only God, yes I agree, we are to worship only God as God, but God has put Christ Jesus in a place of worship and said that we are to bow down and worship his son.

And then there's this, I am quoting this verse just in case you say that if we are to worship only God, then Jesus is God.

Revelation 3

I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

2 No the Holy Spirit is not a"thing" at all, I've never said that once, I wouldn't degrade the Spirit of the living God in such a way!

3. Jesus is not the father, you talk about equality, but God exalted Christ Jesus, to his right hand. If Christ Jesus was God, then God wouldn't have needed to have exalted him.

4. Yes I absolutely do believe in a spiritual Israel, why don't you?

5. Jesus is the only way, any church that doesn't truly follow him is a false church. There's no denomination in Christ, he is the way, the truth and the life and nobody gets to the father except by him. It's not by joining a church its by living by the will of God and following Jesus and we can do that anywhere, we don't need to join a church with man made ideas added on!

5. God has everything that he wants written in the Bible, but it is full of deeper meanings and God opens our understanding. If it wasn't, then Jesus would not have needed to say, if you have the ears to hear, hear. And also, listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. There is a natural and there is a spiritual and God gives us Revelation as to the spiritual when we have complete faith in him, love him, obey him doing his will and worship him in spirit and in truth. Once we do this, we experience the former and the latter rain in the clouds of heaven!

 

[marhig]

Are you saying you can overcome as Jesus overcame... through your flesh?

Yes I am, and I'm not only saying that we can, I'm saying that if we born of God we should be overcoming our flesh daily. But the we can't do it without the power of the Holy spirit and we can only do it through Christ. Paul said "I die daily" and to die daily is to lay down our lives every day and do the will of God and God through Christ will give us the strength to overcome.

Revelation 2

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 12

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[daqq]

You have clearly misunderstood me.

It is not I who desire to rule.

Only ONE is fit to rule... Revelation 21:22; John 10:30; John 14:8-9

My best answer to your false charges is to put my answer to Crucible, on this matter, in Spoiler format.

Your Matrix shot also reminds me of an old friend, Hanni. Anyway your spoiler does not come up in the quote, I guess, but you clearly said that was your "best answer" to me even though those words were originally said to someone else. Thus you do by default repeat those words to me just as you have done. Moreover the way in which I previously responded to those same words, from you to me, still stands, (and there are many more things in those your words, now to both Crucible and myself, which you speak out of ignorance of the scripture: but I see no need to go over all of it because it is all a consequence of your physical, flesh minded, carnal Esau man, old man, paradigm-mindset).

 

[meshak]

Your Matrix shot also reminds me of an old friend, Hanni. Anyway your spoiler does not come up in the quote, I guess, but you clearly said that was your "best answer" to me even though those words were originally said to someone else. Thus you do by default repeat those words to me just as you have done. Moreover the way in which I previously responded to those same words, from you to me, still stands, (and there are many more things in those your words, now to both Crucible and myself, which you speak out of ignorance of the scripture: but I see no need to go over all of it because it is all a consequence of your physical, flesh minded, carnal Esau man, old man, paradigm-mindset).

good for you brother

 

[Tambora]

No it's not a lie, that's what you all say, that the teachings of Jesus and his apostles are for the Jews, the kingdom gospel as you call it. And Paul has a separate gospel the grace gospel for the gentiles, which the MADS follow.

How is she lying? when this is what MADS say they believe thus making the teachings of Jesus of non effect to them. Many times I've heard " that's not for us, that's the kingdom gospel for the Jews"?

It's an outright lie, and now you are defending that lie?????????????

Not a single MADist here has ever said that GOD's word is only for the Jews.
We have constantly proclaimed that all of scripture is for everyone to use for understanding.
We do, however, proclaim that some of what GOD's word tells some specific people at one time is not directed to all people of all time.
And we give many examples in scripture of this.
Such as ....

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.​

It was not written as an instruction for everyone at all times, now was it?
Of course not.
It was only to His JEWISH disciples for THAT TIME.

The same for when Jesus Christ told them (the Jews) not to go to the Gentiles.

Matthew 10:5-6 KJV​

(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:​

(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

That was not an instruction for all people of all time, now was it?

So if Meshak would like to say that MADist proclaim that SOME of the words of Jesus were only for Jews, that would be correct.
And you and Meshak should both agree with that too.
But that's not what Meshak said about MADists.

Meshak's blanket untrue statement is about as lame as GT constantly repeating that we must obey EVERYTHING Jesus says (which is another obvious lie).
Meshaks statement and GT's statement are equally untrue, and I just gave you scriptural examples of why their statements are untrue.
Them making these type of blanket untrue statements should be a concern for anyone that is genuinely searching for TRUTH.

 

[marhig]

It's an outright lie, and now you are defending that lie?????????????

Not a single MADist here has ever said that GOD's word is only for the Jews.
We have constantly proclaimed that all of scripture is for everyone to use for understanding.
We do, however, proclaim that some of what GOD's word tells some specific people at one time is not directed to all people of all time.
And we give many examples in scripture of this.
Such as ....

Matthew 16:20 KJV
(20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.​

It was not written as an instruction for everyone at all times, now was it?
Of course not.
It was only to His JEWISH disciples for THAT TIME.

The same for when Jesus Christ told them (the Jews) not to go to the Gentiles.

Matthew 10:5-6 KJV​

(5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:​

(6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.​

That was not an instruction for all people of all time, now was it?

So if Meshak would like to say that MADist proclaim that SOME of the words of Jesus were only for Jews, that would be correct.
And you and Meshak should both agree with that too.
But that's not what Meshak said about MADists.

Meshak's blanket untrue statement is about as lame as GT constantly repeating that we must obey EVERYTHING Jesus says (which is another obvious lie).
Meshaks statement and GT's statement are equally untrue, and I just gave you scriptural examples of why their statements are untrue.
Them making these type of blanket untrue statements should be a concern for anyone that is genuinely searching for TRUTH.

She never said that the MADS believe that Gods word is only for the Jews. She said that MADS believe that Jesus' word is only for the Jews. How can it deny that? That's exactly what you all say. You say that Jesus preached the kingdom gospel to the Jews and that it's not for us.

So which part of the gospel that Jesus preached do you follow? Because every time I bring something up that Jesus preached, a MADist jumps in and says "that's the kingdom gospel" it's not for us, we're under the grace gospel and apparently I'm a "devil" for following Jesus and his teachings and not only following the grace gospel I.e. the teachings of Paul!

So, which part of the "kingdom gospel" (which is the only gospel) do you follow if you do follow what Jesus taught?

 

[meshak]

I just cannot believe tam is targeting me as a liar.

Just amazing.

that's what happens when Jesus is not your Lord.

 

[meshak]

Personal attacks happen when they cannot defend their faith.

 

[meshak]

Peace, Tam.

Jesus loves you.