Student Op-Ed: ‘Yes Means Yes’ Is Not Enough Because Sometimes ‘Yes Means No’
Apparently, you can be “raped by rape culture.” When it comes to consent, it’s not enough to teach that “no means no” or even that only “yes means yes” — because sometimes “yes” can actually mean “no.”
At least that’s the point of view expressed in an op-ed written by Jordan Bosiljevac for Claremont McKenna College’s student newspaper, the Forum. In the piece, Bosiljevac explains that she and her friends even came up with a phrase to describe someone having sex with you who you didn’t want to have sex with even though you told him that you did, which they apparently consider a form of rape: “We coined the term ‘raped by rape culture’ to describe what it was like to say yes, coerced by the culture that had raised us and the systems of power that worked on us, and to still want ‘no,’” she writes in the April 30 article, titled “Why Yes Can Mean No.” “We coined the term ‘raped by rape culture’”.
Bosiljevac writes that she’s been dealing with the oppression of this culture her whole life — beginning with having to endure relatives kissing her cheeks “even as I winced and turned away” — and that it continues to influence her sexual decision-making abilities, almost to the point where she doesn’t seem to think she really has any ability to make those decisions at all. She describes one incident in particular in which she had hooked up with a guy who had asked her outright if she was okay with what was happening and she had told him “yes” — explaining that even though she had said “yes,” she had really meant “no,” and it wasn’t really entirely her fault that she couldn’t just say what she wanted: “Sometimes, for me, there was obligation from already having gone back to someone’s room, not wanting to ruin a good friendship, loneliness, worry that no one else would ever be interested, a fear that if I did say no, they might not stop, the influence of alcohol, and an understanding that hookups are ‘supposed’ to be fun,” she writes.
Bosiljevac also throws racism and homophobia into the blame-game mix, asserting that “consent is a privilege, and it was built for wealthy, heterosexual, cis, white, western, able-bodied masculinity. . . . When you’re poor, disabled, queer, non-white, trans, or feminine, ‘no’ isn’t for you.” She does, however, clarify that you can actually be a person in one of these groups, or, as she explains it, “a person oppressed in these systems of power,” and still be capable of having “empowering consensual experiences.”
Yep — even if you’re a female, you’re still capable of maybe actually wanting to have sex and enjoying it sometimes! Glad she clarified. If she hadn’t, I would have never imagined such a thing could be possible. So what do we do? After all, there’s no way to tell if a woman is actually wanting to have sex or just saying that she wants to have sex even though she doesn’t because she’s a helpless victim of male oppression that makes it impossible for her to use the right words. Lest you think Bosiljevac is just complaining, she does offer a solution: “First, we have to realize that all oppression is connected, and all rape is racist, classist, ableist, patriarchal, hetero and cissexist,” she writes. “We cannot make consent available to all if we are not simultaneously disrupting these structures.”
this is what passes for "intelligence" on campus today :doh:
it's morons like this who put bammy in the white house :doh:
What do you mean? Example?They're on to 'yes means no' now.
Provide an example.
We are taught (in rape prevention lectures) that No Means No!
speaking from my experience, I would agree with the statement that:
No sometimes Means No!
No sometimes also means Yes
No sometimes means Not Yet
No sometimes means Not Until The Kids Are Asleep
No sometimes means Pour Me Another Glass Of Wine And Put On Some Luther Vandross
No sometimes means Not Here - My Mother's In The Next Bedroom
i'm sure i'll think up some more - please feel free to add you own!
Are you speaking from experience?1. I agree with the OP that "no" doesn't always mean "no"; in point of fact, depending on context, intonation of voice, body language, etc., it very well may mean "yes."
2. I don't think that this topic is appropriate for polite discussion. If you're married, this question probably doesn't even arise.
I agree. Dozer's full of crap."we shouldn't do this" as she's taking off my clothes"
"no" as she helps me unhook her bra"
Never happens.
Are you speaking from experience?
Why do you think the question wouldn't arise?
For the sake of propriety, I'm going to decline to answer this.
The spouses, I am assuming, know each other quite well enough to be able to ascertain when there is and is not consent. If there is an allegation of spousal rape, I doubt that anyone is going to claim: "Yes, she said 'no,' but I thought she really meant 'yes.'"
Okay, then I'll decline to address the rest of that part of your post then.
Do you think it's about knowing the other well enough, or do you think it's about power?
Y'know, I may have to recuse myself from this particular discussion and retract my previous assertion...not, of course, as though it were definitely false. I simply don't have sufficient statistical/sociological/psychological knowledge to make a claim either way.
That might be a good decision.
...I was referring specifically to the matter of whether the issue would arise between a married couple.
...
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Do you really want to play this game? :sigh:
How many times do you suppose rape has occurred within the confines of marriage Trad?
You're not in a "game" with this whatsoever so think before you answer unless you want to look evermore the precocious ignorant *so and so* etc...
What I called into question was whether "'no' means 'no,'" is ever an issue in marital rape. Is it the case that the woman said "no," the husband thought that the woman's "no" actually meant "yes," and then mistakenly proceeded to copulate with her, even though she was not willing?
I doubt it, but I don't really have any knowledge either way.
To be clear:
It's been made known to me that there's apparently been a massive rape controversy as of late. My posts in this thread have nothing to do with that controversy. I was dealing with a single, particular issue:
"If a woman says the word 'no,' does it always really mean 'no'?"
I was answering in the negative, for the reasons stated previously.
Again, to be clear: my comments have nothing to do with the controversy that spurred the creation of this, or other, rape threads. I was completely ignorant of the controversy when I started posting. Do try to keep that in mind.
What does "NO" mean to you?