NFL Off Season

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tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
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O'Donnell - 57.8 - 3.7 - 2.1 - 81.8

LOL....it would be hard for me to put Neil O'Donnell on any "greatest" list. However, I can't believe how low his INT% was.

I know you like numbers and stats (as do I), but the "it" factor has to come into play. O'Donnell threw two terrible interceptions in the Super Bowl that cost his team the game, and couldn't complete a 3-yard pass on the last play of the game in the AFC Championship Game the previous year. So, even though his career INT% was very low, when it came crunch time, he choked.

That's also why I would never have Tony Romo in my Top 10. As great as Romo's numbers were, he just couldn't perform in the big games.

Heck, Romo's field goal botch against Seattle in the playoffs should keep him out of anyone's Top 5. :chuckle:

 
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tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
BTW....on that Romo botch...... every black QB that has ever played in the NFL would have made it into the end zone untouched.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
LOL....it would be hard for me to put Neil O'Donnell on any "greatest" list. However, I can't believe how low his INT% was.
Second tier, solid performer who could move the ball and not hand it over. Hard to argue against him once you clear the cream.

I know you like numbers and stats (as do I), but the "it" factor has to come into play. O'Donnell threw two terrible interceptions in the Super Bowl that cost his team the game, and couldn't complete a 3-yard pass on the last play of the game in the AFC Championship Game the previous year. So, even though his career INT% was very low, when it came crunch time, he choked.
Kelly had four bad SBs. Elway had a few. It happens. If you're lucky enough to get another stab at it, sometimes the breaks rewrite your legacy. Sometimes you don't get the chance.

And sometimes, once in generations, you're Joe Montana. :D

That's also why I would never have Tony Romo in my Top 10. As great as Romo's numbers were, he just couldn't perform in the big games.
Unfair. He didn't have enough of them to draw a conclusion from or much help more often than not.

Heck, Romo's field goal botch against Seattle in the playoffs should keep him out of anyone's Top 5. :chuckle:
I'm not Cowborys fan, but you put him in Denver or New England over the last few years and you might have a very different opinion.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Has any NFL player had a worse off-season than Colin Kaepernick?

Mike Vick spent a few in prison, so there's that.


And that racist pig Michael Bennett should shut his mouth before all the non west coast fans turn their back on him. He actually had the balls to say the NFL, the biggest employer for black men in terms of percentage of workers and highest paid, is racist against black people. What the hell is the matter with people that they come to the conclusions they do? Is it because he is actually stupid?
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
"Not only are the Dallas Cowboys 'America's Team', they also have the 'best fans' in the NFL, according to research from Professor Mike Lewis at Emory University in Atlanta...

"And the winners are:

The Cowboys excel on all the metrics. They win in terms of Fan Equity (a revenue premium measure of brand strength), Road Equity and finish second in social media. The underlying data reveals why Dallas does so well.

The Cowboy’s average home attendance (reported by ESPN) is more than 10,000 higher than the next team. The Cowboys average ticket price is also well above average and they have the second most Twitter followers after the Patriots.

The other thing to note is that the Cowboys achieve these year in and year out , even in years when the team is not great.

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/btb-its-official-study-proves-cowboys-have-the-best-nfl-fans.379882/
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
How about Danny White?
I like him, but the same sort of problem when you look at the numbers.

Just shy of 60% completion career. In his prime he put it in the end zone, but he was always int prone too. He was really good for a few years there, like in 83, when he threw for nearly four thousand yds, a 7.5 yrd avg. and 29 tds, but he threw over 20 picks that year too. That's what keeps him down a bit.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I like him, but the same sort of problem when you look at the numbers.

More on Don Meredith and one of the things in regard to him which is overlooked was his leadership qualities:

Meredith’s teammates were inspired by his leadership. Pete Gent, a Cowboy wide receiver and tight end from 1964-1968, and later the best-selling author of “North Dallas Forty,” told NFL Films in 1969 that Meredith “has that inner something” and that “he intentionally plays the buffoon with the group” to help even the last players on the roster feel part of the team. By all the accounts I’ve heard, he was a wonderful teammate.

More than anything else, Meredith earned respect by repeatedly exhibiting one attribute: toughness. Few had more guts and courage, inside and outside the pocket. In his era, the rules didn’t protect the quarterback as they do today, and those that did weren’t strictly enforced. In those early years, the Cowboys’ offensive line wasn’t very good. Meredith often took a beating, but he never complained about it. According to Brandt, Meredith played a game against Washington in 1966 with broken ribs.

...The Cowboys suffered two excruciating losses to the Packers in the N.F.L. championship games of 1966 and 1967, and another playoff defeat to the Browns in 1968. As a result, Meredith was relentlessly criticized for the team’s failures, even though he made the Pro Bowl in all three years.

Just before the start of training camp in 1969, Meredith unexpectedly announced his retirement at age 31, in his prime.

Just when he was reaching his prime he had lead the Boys to two NFL championship games against the great Lombardi Packers and they were just barely beaten in those games. I will say it one more time--stats aren't everything because a quarterback's leadership abilities cannot be measured by stats.

There’s little doubt that by quarterbacking one of the N.F.L.’s most glamorous teams, and by helping broaden its appeal from the broadcast booth, Don Meredith played an important part in the growth in popularity of pro football, both on and off the field.

https://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/remembering-don-meredith-as-a-football-player/

Dandy Don might indeed belong in the NFL Hall of Fame more than any other NFL quarterback who is not enshrined there now.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Just when he was reaching his prime he had lead the Boys to two NFL championship games against the great Lombardi Packers and they were just barely beaten in those games. I will say it one more time--stats aren't everything because a quarterback's leadership abilities cannot be measured by stats.
Most qbs hit and peak in their twenties. Don had a really good year before he left, topping his best from two years prior. But he wasn't consistent and the year before that had thrown 16 picks to 16 tds. I'm sure he was well thought of by his teammates, but that short a career with that particular weakness won't get you in Canton. And it shouldn't.

Dandy Don might indeed belong in the NFL Hall of Fame more than any other NFL quarterback who is not enshrined there now.
I don't believe there's much of an argument for that beyond "I'm a Cowboys fan" but I like your loyalty.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Which NFL Quarterback who is not now in the Hall of Fame and is eligible to be included do you think deserves that honor?
:think: It would be easier to tell you a couple who are in who shouldn't be...

Romo should go in eventually. Otherwise we're penalizing an exceptional player for his teammates and a couple of bad decisions, which is ludicrous. I'd put Anderson in...his career rating is 49th. He led the league in passing during multiple years. Despite not playing in the pinball years of the NFL he's 42nd in TDs. He's a 4 time pro bowler.

Read an article by a homer who suggested McNair did everything Romo did and did it better. I'm thinking the writer must have been high. McNair had 174 tds to 119 picks and a career rating of 82.8. Romo threw for 84 more tds and 2 fewer picks in rout to a career rating of 97.5.

Or McNair had a solid career with one good run that had a really good running back having an exceptionally good year. Romo is 4th in career rating behind Rodgers, Wilson and Brady at present and just edging out Steve Young. Numbers don't always tell the full story, but over a decently long career they do give you a pretty fair assessment of the strengths of a guy at the position.

You could make the argument for Boomer and if Simms was healthy the year his back up won the SB he'd be in. Some get excited about Plunkett because of his two rings, but he was on his third team by then and never made a pro bowl, so that says something. Hadl and Brodie get looks for leading the league in passing yards through multiple years. Anderson and Romo are my only sure things off the top of my noggin. I'll have to look harder at the rest before I can have a final opinion.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Romo is not elgible at this point in time. And I agree with you about Anderson.
I wasn't thinking of current eligibility. Didn't see that for some reason. I was considering anyone out of the game. Anderson had the misfortune of playing when a handful of greats were dominating the popular focus. It got worse when he was literally out of the game, but he only really got his due from those who coached him and played against him.

Where do you stand on RBs that aren't in?
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
"Not only are the Dallas Cowboys 'America's Team', they also have the 'best fans' in the NFL

Too bad the Cowboys have only won 2 postseason games since 1996. (20 seasons)

The Steelers won two postseason games just last year.

25 NFL teams have 3 postseason wins or more since 1996.

Here are the seven loser franchises (including the Cowboys), with only 2 postseason wins or less since 1996

2 - Cowboys & Redskins
1 - Chiefs
0 - Browns, Bengals, Bills, and Lions.
 
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tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Some get excited about Plunkett because of his two rings, but he was on his third team by then and never made a pro bowl, so that says something.

Plunkett had the "Heisman QB jinx".

Of all the QB's who have ever won the Heisman, Roger Staubach is the only one to make it to the HOF.

Since Staubach:

1964 - John Haurte
1966 - Steve Spurrier
1967 - Gary Beban
1970 - Jim Plunkett
1971 - Pat Sullivan
1984 - Doug Flutie
1986 - Vinny Testeverde
1989 - Andre Ware
1990 - Ty Detmer
1992 - Gino Torreta
1993 - Charlie Ward
1996 - Danny Wuerffel
2000 - Chris Weinke
2001 - Eric Crouch
2002 - Carson Palmer
2003 - Jason White
2004 - Matt Leinart
2006 - Troy Smith
2007 - Tim Tebow
2008 - Sam Bradford
2010 - Cam Newton
2011 - Robert Griffin III
2012 - Johnny Manziel
2013 - Jameis Winston
2014 - Marcus Mariota
2016 - Lamar Jackson

Do you think any of the current winners on the list has a chance?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Plunkett had the "Heisman QB jinx".

Of all the QB's who have ever won the Heisman, Roger Staubach is the only one to make it to the HOF.

Since Staubach:

1964 - John Haurte
1966 - Steve Spurrier
1967 - Gary Beban
1970 - Jim Plunkett
1971 - Pat Sullivan
1984 - Doug Flutie
1986 - Vinny Testeverde
1989 - Andre Ware
1990 - Ty Detmer
1992 - Gino Torreta
1993 - Charlie Ward
1996 - Danny Wuerffel
2000 - Chris Weinke
2001 - Eric Crouch
2002 - Carson Palmer
2003 - Jason White
2004 - Matt Leinart
2006 - Troy Smith
2007 - Tim Tebow
2008 - Sam Bradford
2010 - Cam Newton
2011 - Robert Griffin III
2012 - Johnny Manziel
2013 - Jameis Winston
2014 - Marcus Mariota
2016 - Lamar Jackson

Do you think any of the current winners on the list has a chance?
Carson might. Some people love Vinny, but he's a purely cumulative case and there's no shot there.
 
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