Apple7
New member
No.
Melchizedek is The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter Apple7
- Start date
No.
keypurr
Well-known member
Apple7
New member
keypurr
Well-known member
But they are like each other. Jesus was given the logos, he is the only one recorded to receive it.
I think a look see on Mel is in order, could he be the logos? Was it Mel in Jesus???
Just thinking out loud.......
Peace
Apple7
New member
Its good to see you with your thinking cap on...
Welcome to The Second and Third Persons of The Trinity.
btw....what scripture informs you that Jesus was given the logos?
keypurr
Well-known member
Not really. Both were creations.
Your assuming a lot Apple7.
Both Jesus and the logos in him were creations.
But lets take some time to go deeper and see what we find.
keypurr
Well-known member
I hope your kidding, that does not make Jesus God. Or the Holy Spirit either.
keypurr
Well-known member
We see it differently Friend.
keypurr
Well-known member
Let it be noted that I disagree, as they re both creations.
It's pretty clear that it does, Keypurr.
Or what, are you just going to reassert your position again as if nothing has been said?
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” - Acts 5:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts5:3-4&version=NKJV
Proof by repeated assertion is a fallacy, Keypurr. You can disagree all you want. But that doesn't make you any more correct.
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." (John 1:3)
Why don't you believe scripture?
Apple7
New member
keypops is just stalling as he tries to buy himself more time.
I asked for scripture to back up his assertions.
He has none.
keypurr
Well-known member
When Moses spoke the people considered he spoke for YHWH. When Jesus spoke the people considered he words were from YHWH. And we know the Holy Spirit comes from YHWH.
One of the biggest problems with the Greek translations is they did not use the name of God. It can cause a lot of confusion.
I personally do not see the Holy Spirit as God, I see it as the power God uses to do his work. The verses pertaining to this subject can be taken as you see it, but I do not hold the same view JR.
Peace
That's because Moses did speak for God. Whether they considered it or not has nothing to do with it.
In the Old Testament (NKJV), we count about 420 times that "Thus saith the Lord" is used.
Yet not once in the New Testament is "Thus saith the Lord" used. Instead, Jesus says "I say unto you" 135 times in the NT. God's messengers' messages were God focused. Jesus' message was focused on Himself, ego-centric. And not only that, but that HE HIMSELF WAS THE MESSAGE.
The following list shows that unlike the righteous priests and kings, prophets and the apostles, the Lord focused His message on Himself:
“Follow Me” 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22
Pray and act “in My name” 18x Mt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13?14; 15:16; 16:23?24, 26; Acts 9:15
“the Holy Spirit” comes “in My name” Jn. 14:26
“for My name’s sake” leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5x Mt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16
Believe in the “name of the… Son” and “in the Son” 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and “in Him [Jesus]” 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31
“believe in Me” 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15?16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20
You “are sanctified by faith in Me” Acts 26:18
Live “in Me” Jn. 11:26
“come after Me” Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27
Abide “in Me” Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 “abide in Me” or else Jn. 15:6 “abide in My love” Jn. 15:9?10
“where two or three are gathered” Jesus is “there in the midst of them” Mt. 18:20
So too: “I [Jesus, will abide] in you” Jn. 15:4?5
“know that I am He” Jn. 8:28 or “if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins” Jn. 8:24
Do things “for My sake” Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life “for My sake” 4x Mt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22
“I never knew you, depart from Me” Mt. 7:23
“I am willing; be cleansed” Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41
”confess Me” Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8
Do not deny “Me” 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38
Do not be “ashamed of Me” Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"
“love Me” 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23?24, 28
Do not reject “Me” Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48
“He who is not with Me is against Me” Lk. 11:23
Love Me “more than” your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]
“I… have loved you” Jn. 15:9, 12
Be “worthy of Me” Mt. 10:37?38
“Come to Me” 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37
“I will give you rest” Mt. 11:28
“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light” Mt. 11:30
I am “greater than the temple” “than Jonah” “than Solomon” Mt. 12:6, 41?42
I am “Lord even of the Sabbath” Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]
Thus He says keep “My commandments” 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12
“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you” Jn. 15:14
“keep My word” Jn. 14:23?24
“He who is not with Me is against Me” Mt. 12:30
The angels are “His angels” Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands “His angels” Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
The kingdom is “His kingdom” Mt. 13:41 and He calls it “My kingdom” Lk. 22:30
Jesus called it “My church” Mt. 16:18 and believers are “My sheep” Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are “His elect” Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27
Paul is a “vessel of Mine to bear My name” Acts 9:15
“all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine” Jn. 17:10
“My peace I give” Jn. 14:27 ”in Me you may have peace” Jn. 16:33
“My joy” should fill you Jn. 15:11
“Who do men say that I am?” Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 “who do you say that I am?” Mt. 16:15
Receive “Me” Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48
Heaven and earth will pass away but “My words” will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33
Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19
“you belong to Christ” Mk. 9:41
Hear “My sayings” and do them Lk. 6:47
Jesus has “His own glory” Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is “glorified” 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31?32; [17:1, 5, 10 24]
“He who hears you hears Me” Lk. 10:16
Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary 1x Lk. 19:37?40
Return “to Me” Lk. 22:32
Be “My disciple” Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to “be My disciple” Lk. 14:33 ”you are My disciples” Jn. 13:35
“I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit” Jn. 15:26; 16:7
The Holy Spirit “will testify of Me” Jn. 15:26
We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that “the Scriptures… testify of Me” Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44]
“You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me” Jn. 15:27
Paul gives “testimony concerning Me” Acts 22:18; 23:11
“the Son gives life to whom He will” Jn. 5:21
“seek Me” Jn. 6:26
Serve “Me” Jn. 12:26
“all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father” Jn. 5:23
“I am the bread of life,” “of heaven,” “of God” Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51
Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe [Jn. 6:36] him” Jn. 6:56
Drink “My blood” and eat “My flesh” Jn. 6:53?54, 56
“I will raise him up at the last day” Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection
“The world… hates Me” Jn. 7:7
“I am the light of the world” Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46
“I bear witness of Myself” 1x Jn. 8:13-14, 18
“know… Jesus Christ” for “eternal life” Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14]
“the Son makes you free” Jn. 8:36
“Abraham rejoiced to see My day” Jn. 8:56; “Before Abraham was, I AM” Jn. 8:58
Of believers, Christ said, “I know them” Jn. 10:27
“I give them eternal life” Jn. 10:28
“I am the resurrection and the life” Jn. 11:25
I “will draw all peoples to Myself” Jn. 12:32
“I will… receive you to Myself” Jn. 14:3
Be “Mine” Jn. 14:24
“I am the vine” Jn. 15:5
“without Me you can do nothing” Jn. 15:5
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you” Jn. 15:16
Those who oppress Christians are “persecuting Me” Acts 9:4?5; 22:7?8; 26:14?15
“because they have not known… Me” Jn. 16:3
The Spirit “will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it” Jn. 16:14
“All things that the Father has are Mine” Jn. 16:15
“the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me” Jn. 16:27
“If I will that he remain” Jn. 21:22
“I have overcome the world” Jn. 16:33
“I am the way” Jn. 14:6
“I am… the truth” Jn. 14:6
“I am… the life” Jn. 14:6
“I will… manifest Myself” Jn. 14:21
Jesus isn't just speaking for God. He is God speaking.
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.” - Acts 5:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts5:3-4&version=NKJV
You mean, "one of Keypurr's biggest problems." Because it's not a problem for those who actually study God's word.
You mean YHWH?
That's because "YHWH" (the Tetragrammaton) is a HEBREW word. Duh.
God is not the author of confusion.
The confusion comes when you don't know what the Greek actually says, or when you ignore the context of what is being said.
That's your problem, not the Bible's, which portrays the Holy Spirit as God. Don't believe me? look at the text I colored blue in this and my previous comment.
A power or force cannot be lied to or made angry.
Only a person can be lied to or made angry. The Person of the Holy Spirit is no different.
It doesn't matter what your view is. If it disagrees or doesn't line up with scripture, and yours clearly does, it's wrong.
No peace for those who reject the true nature of God.
keypurr
Well-known member
True, but are not you in that same boat?
keypurr
Well-known member
I do, but it was YHWH that used his Son (logos) to create all. The spirit Son had the power and fullness of his creator. The logos is firstborn of all creatures/creation. YHWH was alone before he created his Express Image.
keypurr
Well-known member
YHWH spoke through Jesus by his logos.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
Joh 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
Already answered.
Sorry, your wrong. There is less chance of error when names are used.
You mean YHWH?
That's because "YHWH" (the Tetragrammaton) is a HEBREW word. Duh.
YHWH is the God of Israel, the God of Christ and the od of the world.
It is the Greek that has caused many problems.
Agree to disagree
If it is an agent of some one or some thing it can.
Right Divider
Body part
Acts 5:3-4 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Clear as could be.... unless YOU'RE a heretic.