Martin Luther Comments on Free Will

[Simon Baker]

i have both of them on my ignore list.

The gospel has been truer since then.

Is Truer a word ? i really do not know, it doesn't look right. Is it "more true" ?

 

[Totton Linnet]

Can we not have Free Will and be Saved by Christ's Work on The Cross ?

The truth is "freewill" ALWAYS flees the cross, of COURSE it does. There is no greater proof of this than beloved Peter. "All these may forsake You but I will never forsake You"

But he did.

A careful self examination would show that none of us willingly came to the cross to be saved and scripture agrees with that

"we hid as it were our faces from Him"

Even when we are saved we rather speak about the power and glory, the resurrection and the new birth than to speak about the shame and the weakness of the cross.

We learn by faith to love the cross.

 

[miscellaneous]

...Martin Luther Comments on Free Will.

"Free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine majesty only: for He alone "Doth, (as the Psalm sings) what he will in heaven and earth." (Ps.cxxxv. 6.)

... that it be used so far as to allow man a "Free-will" not in respect of those things which are above him, but in respect only of those things which are below him: ...but that, God-ward, or in things which pretain to salvation or damnation, he has no "Free-will," but is a captive slave, and servant, either to the will of God, or to the will of Satan".
- Bondage of the will, XXV1, pp. 76-79.

Luther must've had a real problem, or he was not too smart. How can man follow the "will of Satan", and not follow "the will of God", since, "Free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine majesty only: for He alone "Doth, (as the Psalm sings) what he will in heaven and earth." (Ps.cxxxv. 6.) ?

Satan is therefore doing "God's will"; hence, anyone who is a "captive slave, and servant to the will of Satan", is also a "captive slave, and servant to the will of God".

Hence, everyone is doing "God's will"; therefore, we're all walking in righteousness because God is righteous. According to this doctrine, even Satan is doing righteousness, even if it's called something else; he has no other choice.

What was Luther's point?

 

[beloved57]

Luther must've had a real problem, or he was not too smart. How can man follow the "will of Satan", and not follow "the will of God", since, "Free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine majesty only: for He alone "Doth, (as the Psalm sings) what he will in heaven and earth." (Ps.cxxxv. 6.) ?

Satan is therefore doing "God's will"; hence, anyone who is a "captive slave, and servant to the will of Satan", is also a "captive slave, and servant to the will of God".

Hence, everyone is doing "God's will"; therefore, we're all walking in righteousness because God is righteous. According to this doctrine, even Satan is doing righteousness, even if it's called something else; he has no other choice.

What was Luther's point?

This is a false conclusion, that is , just because everyone is doing God's Will, that means they are walking in Righteousness ! The fact is, everyone is doing God's will, yet sometimes that means walking in a wicked manner, as these who crucified Christ Acts 2:23

23 Him[Christ], being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God[His Will], ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

It was God predetermine will that these men be guilty of this crime they committed by their wicked hands !

So your conclusions are false and made in spiritual ignorance !

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

How can man follow the "will of Satan", and not follow "the will of God", since, "Free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine majesty only: for He alone "Doth, (as the Psalm sings) what he will in heaven and earth." (Ps.cxxxv. 6.) ?

?

Excuse Me?

Explain; Possibly ask this same question in a different way...

Maybe define what you think "god" and "satan" mean to you, Personally?




=M=

 

[miscellaneous]

?

Excuse Me?

Explain; Possibly ask this same question in a different way...

Maybe define what you think "god" and "satan" mean to you, Personally?




=M=

If "Free-will" is a divine attribute, as Luther states it is, Satan does not have it; therefore he must be carrying out some Other Will. So when he acts, he is acting out Another's Will, and whoever acts out Satan's will is actually acting out the Other Will. If the Other Will is Divine, it is only righteous(right, good), therefore all acts performed are acting out the Divine Will and are righteous(right, good).

If you believe God's Will is supreme over all other, you must believe all other is determined by God's Will. No?

Therefore I said,

Luther must've had a real problem, or he was not too smart. How can man follow the "will of Satan", and not follow "the will of God", since, "Free-will is plainly a divine term, and can be applicable to none but the divine majesty only: for He alone "Doth, (as the Psalm sings) what he will in heaven and earth." (Ps.cxxxv. 6.) ?

Satan is therefore doing "God's will"; hence, anyone who is a "captive slave, and servant to the will of Satan", is also a "captive slave, and servant to the will of God".

Hence, everyone is doing "God's will"; therefore, we're all walking in righteousness because God is righteous. According to this doctrine, even Satan is doing righteousness, even if it's called something else; he has no other choice.

What was Luther's point?

If everything other is subject to fulfilling the Will of God, and if the Will of God is righteous, unrighteousness looses it's meaning.

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

If "Free-will" is a divine attribute, as Luther states it is

Oh!

You don't believe in "Masonic/Popery" and Other Extra-Biblical Sources about God's Word, Either?



=M=



Do you stick to God's word, for your Information about Bible Topics; or, do you also include works of the Roman Catholic Church, and other Extra-Biblical Books and theories about the Bible?


====================================


Where in the whole Bible, does it say any of God's Creatures; "Don't have Free Will"?


Do you have a Verse that Mentions the term "Free-Will", or is that another Lie that the Catholic Church is responsible for?

( I do think God's word mentions about Predestination, or that things are "Predestined" to be. )

 

[miscellaneous]

This is a false conclusion, ...

So your conclusions are false and made in spiritual ignorance !

You may be right; however, if God wills a man to walk in unrighteousness, and if that man can do no other, than it is like you throwing four of your grandbabies into a pit of venomous vipers, and then punishing them for getting bitten by putting them into eternal fire; then you asking your other grandchildren to believe that you wouldn't ever do it to them because you are a good granddaddy...

Think the others would trust you?

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

If everything other is subject to fulfilling the Will of God, and if the Will of God is righteous, unrighteousness looses it's meaning.

Miscellaneous;

I think God can see "How Everything will happen"; but, I don't think that Man has what you think as of "Free Will".

For an Explanation; I'd say that you would have made Every single mistake in your Life, that you did the first time around, if you were given the chance to do it again: if you were not aware of your Mistakes in the first Place.

Only God can see what is Truly Predestined in my Opinion, Reality is all from Him anyway.

So, we all have "Free-Will", God knows all things, and He knows the actions and choices we will make; and, can fully understand and see the Ultimate repercussions of all the Choices and actions we will make.


=M=


Are you aware of any Verses from God's word that mention the Concept of "Free-Will", in the Bible itself?

If not, Some and Possible all of Luther's comments writings and works were based simply off of the Man's own imagination, and not on the Word of God; as he may have claimed in the First place.

(Catholic Move, that they Pull all the Time.)

 

[miscellaneous]

Oh!

You don't believe in "Masonic/Popery" and Other Extra-Biblical Sources about God's Word, Either?



=M=



Do you stick to God's word, for your Information about Bible Topics; or, do you also include works of the Roman Catholic Church, and other Extra-Biblical Books and theories about the Bible?


====================================


Where in the whole Bible, does it say any of God's Creatures; "Don't have Free Will"?


Do you have a Verse that Mentions the term "Free-Will", or is that another Lie that the Catholic Church is responsible for?

( I do think God's word mentions about Predestination, or that things are "Predestined" to be. )

I suppose we could argue about something but I simply responded to Luther's comment in the OP. Luther must have struggled with his own views about the character of God.

Ok, let's go:
People have been arguing about scripture for thousands of years and accomplished what? Were you there when it was written? Did you communicate with the authors? Do you have special interpretation techniques which others don't have? Do you need the scripture to know God? Do I? If so, most of us will never know Him; we can't even agree what they teach.

Again, I simply responded to the OP; I wonder if you care to refute my conclusion.

Luther must've had a real problem, or he was not too smart.

 

[Mark SeaSigh]

I "Don't agree", with Catholics often, that's true...

: )



=M=

 

[beloved57]

You may be right; however, if God wills a man to walk in unrighteousness, and if that man can do no other, than it is like you throwing four of your grandbabies into a pit of venomous vipers, and then punishing them for getting bitten by putting them into eternal fire; then you asking your other grandchildren to believe that you wouldn't ever do it to them because you are a good granddaddy...

Think the others would trust you?

I know I am right, I proved it with scripture, so again, your statements were out of spiritual ignorance and so invalid !

 

[Desert Reign]

If everything other is subject to fulfilling the Will of God, and if the Will of God is righteous, unrighteousness looses it's meaning.

This is a re-expression of the ancient Euthyphro dilemma.

You may be right; however, if God wills a man to walk in unrighteousness, and if that man can do no other, than it is like you throwing four of your grandbabies into a pit of venomous vipers, and then punishing them for getting bitten by putting them into eternal fire; then you asking your other grandchildren to believe that you wouldn't ever do it to them because you are a good granddaddy...

Think the others would trust you?

B57 has already given his answer to this here. See B57's response in the next post on and my subsequent reply here.

 

[miscellaneous]

This is a re-expression of the ancient Euthyphro dilemma.




B57 has already given his answer to this here. See B57's response in the next post on and my subsequent reply here.

Whoa, I guess that settles it; thanks.

 

[Desert Reign]

Whoa, I guess that settles it; thanks.

Well, for B57, I am sure it does, because he has no concept of right and wrong. That unfortunately is what extreme dogmatism and indoctrination does to you. If he thought God arranged the world to make life for its inhabitants as excruciatingly painful as possible, then that, to B57 would be his ideal good.

 

[Puppet]

HOGWASH!

No one is born again or becomes a Christian without hearing and believing the Gospel.

On the day of Pentecost when the Gospel first came into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit they received Peter's Gospel and were born again, Acts 2:38-41.

The Holy Spirit is only given to those who hear and believe the Gospel, "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something or because you became something) or was it by the hearing of faith" (hearing and believing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

How can you go on and on about being saved and never mention the Gospel or what Christ did to save you? If you had the Holy Spirit which you don't, you would glorify Christ with the Gospel.

"For he shall not speak of himself. He shall glorify me" John 16:13, 14. All you talk about is yourself and your Calvinist doctrine.

The instrument through which God is saving him is faith.

 

[Puppet]

You cannot be born again without hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

Obedience is never said to be the ground or instrument of their salvation.

 

[Puppet]

You cannot be born again without hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

The believers are “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation”

 

[Robert Pate]

Dan P,

As a lost person under the wrath of God, I possessed no moral ability to participate in my own salvation. I was lost, in other words, I was

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- loved darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, did not understand, did not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in my trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- could not understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

In other words, my inability to submit to God and do good was total (Romans 8:7-8; Ephesians 2:1; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6). My rebellion was wholly deserving of eternal punishment (2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Matthew 5:29-30; 10:28; 13:49-50; 18:8-9; 25:46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10).

For His own good purposes and glory, without considering anything He foresaw I had or may do (no foreseen personal merit), God took the initiative according to His eternal decree and plan for realization of His decree. God regeneratively replaced my "heart of stone" with "one of flesh" (Eze. 36:26) and I was simultaneously and irresistibly given the moral ability of belief in the Good News that was preached (i.e., the ordinary means of regeneration), an ability I did not possess beforehand. My ability to believe, previously lost to all Adam's progeny with his fall in the Garden, was such that I could not be inclined other than to believe. Indeed, as but and undeserving, repentant sinner, at the moment of my "re-birth" (regeneration) the greatest inclinations of my free will were the laying hold of the righteousness of Christ's works— His active and passive obedience, on my and all those on behalf of whom He came to actually (not possibly) redeem.

My new principle of life — my love for and trust of my Savior, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully man in one Person — flows from my new birth, not vice versa. I believe this is clearly taught in John 3:3 wherein our Lord tells us we cannot even see the kingdom of God unless we are first born again. If we cannot see the kingdom, we certainly cannot enter it; thus, regeneration precedes faith in some sort of logical manner. In regenerating my heart, the efficacious regenerative grace of the Holy Spirit opened my eyes, making me irresistibly able and thusly, inclined to obey in faith.

I do not forget that God does not look at my faith or knowledge as the ground of my justification but rather the ground of my justification is the finished work of Christ. Faith is the alone by which I, a sinner, cling to Christ and am now justified, solely by Christ's active and passive obedient works on my behalf and for others of whom Jesus came to render their salvation to actually deliver (not possibly deliver) them from the curse of the law, and from the power of sin.

In other words, my faith is the instrument, not the cause, which belongs to Christ alone, of my justification before God the Father.

My new life that came when the quickening power of the Holy Spirit transformed my heart did not eradicate sin’s presence from my life. Even as regenerated to a new life, after my heart was redirected towards the Savior, I still have great capacity for evil. While the power of sin to compel me to do evil is now broken, my ability to sin remains (Rom. 7:4–25), for I will never escape the noetic effects of sin until coming into my glory.

Therefore, I must do all that I can to put to death the lusts of my flesh. Most thankfully, my Lord is the author of my faith hence, He is also the finisher (Heb. 12:2) such that I will persevere to the very end and to my ultimate glory. Mine is an alien righteousness, one instilled from outside myself, that of Christ's (1 Corinthians 1:30). I always remember that regeneration was only the beginning of my walk, thus I am less surprised at my struggles with temptation and become more vigilant in mortifying my flesh.

for what He did for us,
AMR

How can you write a long article about your salvation and not once mention the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Can it be that you don't need it?

 

[Puppet]

How can you write a long article about your salvation and not once mention the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Can it be that you don't need it?

Believers are those who “truly believe in Christ” and who “endeavor to walk in all good conscience before him.”