Please explain your interpretation of what, "Christ's faith" is, and how
it is instrumental in our own personal salvation?
ECT Madists are closet Calvinists
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Please explain your interpretation of what, "Christ's faith" is, and how
it is instrumental in our own personal salvation?
Our own "personal faith" must be placed in Christ as our only Savior! The unsaved
cannot become saved unless they place their faith in Christ!
cannot become saved unless they place their faith in Christ!
Somebody please explain what it means (in their own words) to be saved BY
Christ's faith? Make it simple?
Christ's faith? Make it simple?
Interesting question! Please give your own explanation of what you think
this means?
this means?
Any takers?
journey
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You're terribly confused and don't know what you're talking about. Those who believe in MAD are NOT Calvinists. Maybe you don't know the correct definition of either one, and that would explain your confusion.
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In one respect, John 19:30 states; "When Jesus therefore had received
the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and
gave up the ghost.
By saying; "It is finished," Christ had faith that ALL He came to
accomplish, was accomplished! When we place our faith in Christ, we
are in agreement with His faith, that our salvation is received by our
faith in His finished work (death and resurrection) and Himself being;
God the Son! Just an interesting way of interpreting it?
True!
andyc
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Was faith gifted to you?
andyc
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Doesn't make any difference whatsoever being in agreement with his faith. Our salvation in his finished work is all that matters. We believe from beginning to end.
andyc
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I expect this reaction, but I was hoping for you to use your head and respond to the points raised. If you don't want to, leave the thread.
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All of the above I find accurate except the last. Here's my take:
If people are saved and hold fast to Him Who saved them to seek as He said to seek, they will be gifted His Faith, by measure, i.e., His Life, the ability to live as He lived and attain unto as He did.. What's the basis for God doing the choosing except to groom His sons unto fatherhood in Him. I believe, by your two verses, that gift was NOT for believing but for attaining unto in Christ by the receiving of the same Mind that was in Him, sons strengthened in all His might to conquer vanity/self/Satan as He exampled in His flesh __ and Paul later brought it to us by his own exeriences . . .
OMT: The "Gift of Faith" is a Pentecostal Gift. Jesus said: 'Don't leave home without it'!
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Yer lying through your teeth.
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But man is depraved and can't receive. You said so!!
andyc
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Lets look at how a madist interprets Christ's faith.
Now there are a lot of problems here. Faith to receive and live by is the same faith. To simply believe. Calvinists would agree with this, but they do not believe that salvation faith is possible until God first inserts it in us. The MADist believes the same, but with a very subtle twist. The initial faith appears to be initiated within the human will, and is immediately accepted and replaced with Christ's faith which is far more stable and can never fail. In other words, God initially acknowledges our useless, wavering, doubting, unstable faith, in order to get the sinner through the door, and from that moment on, only recognizes Jesus' faith which is imputed to the wavering unstable believer. This leaves the wavering flake to be assured that their faith is now redundant, and that God is now only concerned with Christ's faith imputed to them. Anyone who knows the MADists is familiar with what they're looking for in their gospel. Their shoddy useless faith supposedly gets them over the line, and Christ's faith removes the accountability. That's really what its about.
James 1:6-8
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Here wee see that it's useless coming to God with a wavering faith.
Sounds great doesn't it?
However, Paul was talking about being driven by the need to preach the gospel and do those things which please him. Christ through the Spirit in him compels him. That's a little different to how the MADists accept it for themselves.
Nope. The verse in the KJV says, and is interpreted as, being justified by the faith of Christ. This would completely remove any kind of faith we might possess. And this would be irresistible grace.
Now there are a lot of problems here. Faith to receive and live by is the same faith. To simply believe. Calvinists would agree with this, but they do not believe that salvation faith is possible until God first inserts it in us. The MADist believes the same, but with a very subtle twist. The initial faith appears to be initiated within the human will, and is immediately accepted and replaced with Christ's faith which is far more stable and can never fail. In other words, God initially acknowledges our useless, wavering, doubting, unstable faith, in order to get the sinner through the door, and from that moment on, only recognizes Jesus' faith which is imputed to the wavering unstable believer. This leaves the wavering flake to be assured that their faith is now redundant, and that God is now only concerned with Christ's faith imputed to them. Anyone who knows the MADists is familiar with what they're looking for in their gospel. Their shoddy useless faith supposedly gets them over the line, and Christ's faith removes the accountability. That's really what its about.
James 1:6-8
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
Here wee see that it's useless coming to God with a wavering faith.
Sounds great doesn't it?
However, Paul was talking about being driven by the need to preach the gospel and do those things which please him. Christ through the Spirit in him compels him. That's a little different to how the MADists accept it for themselves.
Nope. The verse in the KJV says, and is interpreted as, being justified by the faith of Christ. This would completely remove any kind of faith we might possess. And this would be irresistible grace.
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By that you must mean we are saved by the faith of Christ and not by Him? IOW, we are saved by placing our faith in faith?
Question: What usually happens when personal tragedy strikes?
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<oh, groan>
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Exactly!! "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled . . . .
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, . . . . " Colossians 1:21-23 (KJV)
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