ECT madists and their gnostic gospel

[andyc]

andyc,

"madists" preach 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV as the means by which we are saved and that salvation is by grace through faith according to Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV. Tell us all how the gospel declared in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is not enough to save us and how salvation is not by grace through faith; not of works. We are still waiting.

Mark 16:17-18 KJV Do it and record it while you're doing it.

Your silence is deafening.

Is there a mad doll that quotes 1 Cor 15:1-4 when you pull the string?

 

[andyc]

You are wrong I do no such thing.

You said very good because you know I corrected you on something you had wrong.

Now let's discuss more and I will show you that you have a lot more than that wrong.

You should wear a cape and a mask and go off on a crusade to fight against the crime of disagreeing with you.

 

[Danoh]

Is there a mad doll that quotes 1 Cor 15:1-4 when you pull the string?

A thought, Andy...

Your reply dealt with her post exactly how; Scripturally?

Consider that, if but for a moment.

Never mind how any one treats you, or not - decide to stick to a focus on the opportunity you are actually allowing others to rob you of (described below).

What is it? And how does one find a means of sticking to it?

By simply deciding the following will be your walk in the Spirit, no matter who throws what your way...

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Why decide that will be your focus no matter what is thrown your way?

Because according to those passages, not only is that His desire for us all towards one another, but He has even shared with you in those passages how to find yourself able to easily walk in the truth of those same two passages - The Grace Life!

In other words, through the simple decision on your part (as you are about to respond to others) to remember to focus on what God's perspective had been towards you, when YOU had least deserved it.

This here...

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The best towards you in that, Romans 5:8.

 

[Interplanner]

I've done a thread like this before a long long time ago, and I'd never find it now, so I'll try and get the point over again.
It's time to psycho analyse the madists and their gospel.

To those who have become well acquainted with mad, what it teaches, and the people behind the message, you find out quickly that madists are paranoid about anything do with works (like Maynard G Krebbs from Dobie Gillis). You mention words like "work", "repentance" etc, and they freak out. To Christians who are not of the mad persuasion, it's easy to be confused how people can major so much in a message of grace, and yet be so graceless in their mannerisms. Right?

And so in this thread you're going to understand why this is, and how they really interpret grace, and why they're on a witch hunt for anyone mentioning anything about work, repentance, baptism, going to church, godliness, holiness etc

It all starts in the garden of Eden. God created Adam as a flesh being from the dust of the ground, and created him to have dominion over the natural physical earth. Man was subject to nothing and no one, except for one word of warning, to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. As long as Adam and Eve abstain from the forbidden fruit, they could live a life pleasing themselves (the flesh life). God originally created us to please ourselves. Until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would be unable to be a slave to either. Adam was morally neutral, and therefore the fleshly man was free from moral obligation. There was nothing to rebel against, because there was no law in existence.

This is the madist interpretation of what it's like to be free from the law. It's not a freedom as a result of spiritual birth/regeneration, but rather they see it as a freedom from moral obligation, in order to neutralise the rebellious nature of the flesh.
It is human nature to rebel against moral restraint, hence the reason why the carnal mind is enmity with God.
And so if any kind of moral restraint is placed upon the flesh, the natural response is to lash out against it. This is why the law is contrary to us, because the commandments are spiritual, but man is natural/carnal.

Here's the problem. How can people be free to do what is right, without feeling condemned for having a nature that rebels against what is right?

What is the victory over the flesh / over the world?


1) Remove all forms of moral obligation in order to pacify the fleshly man with it's carnal appetites (mid acts dispensationalism / gnosticism).
2) Walk in the Spirit (Christianity)

You NEVER EVER hear madists talk about walking in the Spirit. You know why? Because they don't know what it means.
Walking in the Spirit is just a meaningless religious cliche to them. But if we relate to God in the Spirit through spiritual birth as sons, the law which was directed towards the natural man is rendered powerless. The nature of the Spirit is to be slaves of righteousness and hate what is wrong, but if people don't live in the Spirit, that nature doesn't exist.

Therefore, let's take something like water baptism for example, why do maddists hate it so much?
Because the bible supposedly says it's not for today? Of course not.
If they're in the flesh, water baptism is an obligation, and the flesh rebels against it by nature.

And so their interpretation of grace is the removal of all moral restraint upon the carnal man in order to try and pacify the flesh.
This is what they understand when they talk about the law being abolished. You can't rebel against a moral code that no longer exists - grace supposedly. You can't commit a sin act if there is no commandment to break. The flesh is free to please self, like Adam in the garden. But without being born again, they can't please God by walking in the Spirit.
This is also why they hate anything to do with faith, and all the gifts of the Spirit. A lot of evangelicals are cessationists because of their interpretation of scripture, but madists have an inner hatred against the gifts of the Spirit because people are obligated to seek the Lord and the gifts, which is not a problem if you walk in the Spirit, but impossible if you're in the flesh. So they lash out against it.

Once again I've blown the lid off mad so you can see their gnostic gospel, which is salvation by knowledge alone, that God has abolished the law so that you can please yourself. Then they remove most of the new testament because of those nasty verses telling us that we are obligated (BY WALKING IN THE SPIRIT) to live godly lives and be holy.

The first thing you need to do in an essay like this is define the term gnostic in its historical sense. I don't see where you have taken the time to do that.

 

[andyc]

A thought, Andy...

Your reply dealt with her post exactly how; Scripturally?

Conisider that, if but for a moment.

How long have you been coming here?
That verse is the most discussed on TOL.

Never mind how they treat you, or not - decide to stick to a focus on the opportunity you are actually allowing others to rob you of (described below).

What is it? And how does one find a means of sticking to it?

By simply deciding the following will be your walk in the Spirit, no matter who throws what your way...

Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Why decide that will be your focus no matter what is thrown your way?

Because according to those passages, not only is that His desire for us all towards one another, but He has even shared with you in those passages how to find yourself able to easily walk in their truth.

Through the simple decision to remember to focus on what God's perspective had been towards you, when you had least deserved it.

This here...

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

The best towards you in that, Romans 5:8.

You're talking to a person born again 26 years ago.

 

[andyc]

The first thing you need to do in an essay like this is define the term gnostic in its historical sense. I don't see where you have taken the time to do that.

Obviously one of the key elements of gnosticism is salvation / enlightenment by knowledge alone. A kind of secretive knowledge informing people where they've come from, and where they're heading. I didn't think I needed to make that plane in the OP, but it is mentioned in my second post.
Walking in the Spirit is where we gain victory over the flesh.

 

[God's Truth]

You should wear a cape and a mask and go off on a crusade to fight against the crime of disagreeing with you.

Why don't you, hypocrite.

 

[God's Truth]

Is there a mad doll that quotes 1 Cor 15:1-4 when you pull the string?

You are a hater.

 

[God's Truth]

How long have you been coming here?
That verse is the most discussed on TOL.



You're talking to a person born again 26 years ago.

You could have fooled Danoh.

 

[God's Truth]

Obviously one of the key elements of gnosticism is salvation / enlightenment by knowledge alone. A kind of secretive knowledge informing people where they've come from, and where they're heading. I didn't think I needed to make that plane in the OP, but it is mentioned in my second post.
Walking in the Spirit is where we gain victory over the flesh.

So all these put downs from you such as your hypocrisy and insults are you walking in the Spirit?

 

[andyc]

So all these put downs from you such as your hypocrisy and insults are you walking in the Spirit?

Didn't you start on me? :AMR:

I don't know who you are or what you believe, but you seem to enjoy giving me jip.

 

[God's Truth]

Didn't you start on me? :AMR:

I don't know who you are or what you believe, but you seem to enjoy giving me jip.

I have been posting in your threads and you have been ignoring me.

Besides, you still are not walking in the Spirit, because of the way you speak to those in falseness.

 

[Danoh]

How long have you been coming here?
That verse is the most discussed on TOL.



You're talking to a person born again 26 years ago.

As those passages (1 Cor. 15:1-4) should be OVER emphasized - and until that last trumpet sound.

As much heck as I might give heir, here and there about other things - ALL she is doing by her ever endless, (obviously nauseating to many) 1 Cor. 15:1-4 assertion is none other than this here...

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

THAT is what you and others are taking issue with.

For whether you buy her sincerity or not, your response by faith is to be...

Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

As for your other comment - you are confusing quantity (years) with quality (of what sort it is)...

For you should well know by now then, that the need for a return to Romans 6 and Romans 12, is NEVER over - let alone, 26 years ago.

Be warned; where you or any one, is sound on some point, I will gladly concede that point - even against an invalid point by my own.

By the same objectivity, where you or anyone are off - especially where my own are concerned - for we are sound on much over many on here, regretabbly - I will just as easily call you or anyone on it.

heir is merely being faithful to that directive there, in 2 Tim. 4:1-5.

As you should be...

For this here...

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

...is how this here, is carried out....

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom. 14:5; 5:7, 8.

 

[musterion]

Well that was a pretty good post.

 

[Danoh]

Obviously one of the key elements of gnosticism is salvation / enlightenment by knowledge alone. A kind of secretive knowledge informing people where they've come from, and where they're heading. I didn't think I needed to make that plane in the OP, but it is mentioned in my second post.
Walking in the Spirit is where we gain victory over the flesh.

Clearly, you do not understand where the MADist in general, is coming from - be it "in pretence or in truth."

What is supposedly the "pet" passage of the Dispy?

And what is the very first word of that passage?

2 Timothy 2:15 S-T-U-D-Y to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing THE -WORD - OF - TRUTH.

Nevertheless, Romans 14:5; 5:7,8.

 

[musterion]

Obviously one of the key elements of gnosticism is salvation / enlightenment by knowledge alone. A kind of secretive knowledge informing people where they've come from, and where they're heading.

You don't know what you're talking about.

There is no secretive knowledge today. All that God wanted to reveal to man has been revealed. The only exception, according to Paul, are those whose minds have been blinded by Satan. Why? Because they did not want to believe. To them, the saving gospel may as well be a hidden secret because they can't see it. But they can't see it because they don't want to.

 

[musterion]

The true gnostics today, or at least some of them, are the charismatic frauds who are claiming new words of knowledge and prophecies from God, which only they can impart.

MADs do see things that other people DON'T see, but those things are right there in the Bible anyway.

Charismatic who claim new revelation say they know things other people CAN'T know unless the charismatic tells them.

Who are the real gnostics there? My group or yours?

 

[meshak]

You should wear a cape and a mask and go off on a crusade to fight against the crime of disagreeing with you.

this is so funny.:chuckle:

 

[musterion]

Funny is worldly. The Watchtower does not like laughing.

 

[andyc]

As those passages (1 Cor. 15:1-4) should be OVER emphasized - and until that last trumpet sound.

As much heck as I might give heir, here and there about other things - ALL she is doing by her ever endless, (obviously nauseating to many) 1 Cor. 15:1-4 assertion is none other than this here...

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

THAT is what you and others are taking issue with.

For whether you buy her sincerity or not, your response by faith is to be...

Philippians 1:18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

As for your other comment - you are confusing quantity (years) with quality (of what sort it is)...

For you should well know by now then, that the need for a return to Romans 6 and Romans 12, is NEVER over - let alone, 26 years ago.

Be warned; where you or any one, is sound on some point, I will gladly concede that point - even against an invalid point by my own.

By the same objectivity, where you or anyone are off - especially where my own are concerned - for we are sound on much over many on here, regretabbly - I will just as easily call you or anyone on it.

heir is merely being faithful to that directive there, in 2 Tim. 4:1-5.

As you should be...

For this here...

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

...is how this here, is carried out....

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom. 14:5; 5:7, 8.

I've dealt with the MAD butchering 1 Cor 15 on several occasions, as have others. Heir just repeats the passage blindly as a mantra.

But just for you.....

Let's look at it in context.....

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

The mads who are looking to validate their theology in scripture insert the idea into this passage, that Paul’s gospel message must have been new and different, because he received it by revelation rather than simply being instructed in it by anyone.
The passage is simply talking about the message of the gospel, and the validation of it, particularly about Christ’s resurrection from the dead, which is critical if the promise offered is eternal life.
As a validation of the resurrection, Christ appeared to the apostles, and over 500 others, and lastly to Paul himself. And so, Paul regards himself as a witness to Christ’s resurrection. Some in the church at Corinth were comparing the apostles, and wondering who were worthy of greater honor. In this passage Paul defends his credentials as an apostle. He then comes to the conclusion that it really doesn’t matter who they received the gospel from, the important thing is that they believed it.
Whether the gospel came about from the other apostles, or from Paul, it was the same gospel.
Verse 14 goes on to further explain that if Christ is not risen, OUR preaching is empty and YOUR FAITH is also empty. Paul’s preaching and the other apostles preaching is the same, and the message of Christ dying and being raised from the dead is the same message.

Verse 14 – 17
14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up——if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

Therefore the message of the gospel is simply to believe that Christ died for our sins, and was raised from the dead.

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

It’s the same message preached by the other apostles.

Acts 4:10-12
"let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. "This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."