ECT MADist thought for the day

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graceandpeace

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It became irrelevent with the beginning of the new covenant which obsoleted the old covenant.

Just because men still did some things of the old covenant did not mean any of it was still in force.









It became irrelevent with the beginning of the new covenant which obsoleted the old covenant.

Just because men still did some things of the old covenant did not mean any of it was still in force.

The pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost made it clear that the new covenant was in force, and the new obsoleted the old.

There were not both the old and the new in force at the same time.

The veil was rent in two at the death of Christ , not in AD 70.

I wonder if G&P will not tackle you on this, but if she is honest about her intentions then she should, and has no choice but to do so.

LA.

Yes, I would agree it was the death of Jesus that ended the old system..of law/old covenant...however, due to the fact that the 'prophets' were a part of the old covenant; they were not yet fully fulfilled until 70 AD, so Tet is right on that.

Jesus came to fulfill both; not just the law.

It takes both being fulfilled for the whole old system to be fulfilled, get it?

The law was fulfilled on the cross.
The new covenant was ratified in His shed blood.

It was not fully in force, until the prophets were complete...70 AD. That is my view.
 

graceandpeace

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I am familiar with G&P's position. To the best of my knowledge she believes the OC came to an end at the cross, and the prophecies ended in 70AD

I disagree with her, and Heb 8:13 fits my position.

My position can also be validated by a study of David's tent.

David's tent stood for 42 years with the Ark of the Covenant in it. At the same time Moses' Tabernacle stood also. At Moses' Tabernacle the High Priest performed all the requirements of the Mosaic Law. All the sacrifices, feasts, burnings, etc were carried out at Moses' Tabernacle, yet God dwelt in David's tent.

The same sort of thing took place from 30Ad to 70Ad

Heb 8:13 fits my position, too....:chuckle:

The old covenant began at the 'end' of the law...which was at the death of Jesus, where sin was put away. Yet, the prophets had to also be completed...which was in 70 AD.

During that timespan you mentioned; (the 42 years)...was the 'generation', wherein the prophets of old would be completed. Prophecy being fulfilled, can be fulfilled, while the new covenant is in place, (began), for part of the prophets of old are about what would be accomplished due to the new covenant being in place....for example, 'nations would learn war no more'....hehe.
 

graceandpeace

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:up:



I don't believe the Bible says there will be one "antichrist". I believe that anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ is "antichrist", therefore there have been thousands of "antichrists".

I believe there was a man that was the "beast" in the first century who was alive in 70AD whose name, when calculated, was 666.

I also believe that the 1,000 year reign is right now, and that it started in 70AD.

The Bible tells us what will happen at the end of the 1,000 year reign

(Rev 20:7-10) 7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

As we see above, this could describe what dispensationalists and futurists claim happens during their "7 year trib" period. They claim the above happens at the end of the exactly 1,000 year reign. That makes no sense. They have Christ sitting on a throne in Jerusalem ruling the blissful earth, but somehow millions of people in the world gather together under satan to attack Jerusalem.

The above passage in Revelation could easily describe what is beginning to happen in the world today in regards to Israel and the Middle East.

pretty much how I see it, too..:)
 

andyc

New member
Correct

In 2 Cor 12 Paul says he was caught up into the third heaven, and says he was caught up into Paradise.

(2 Cor 12:2 KJV) .....such an one caught up to the third heaven.

(2 Cor 12:4 KJV) How that he was caught up into paradise....

Yet the MADists/Bullingerites will claim that Paradise is in the center of the earth, and all the kingdom slaves are there right now. They claim that after Jesus comes back to earth to reign for exactly 1,000 years, the kingdom slaves in Paradise will be transported to planet earth to live as immortal people for 1,000 years.

So, even though Paul uses the phrase " such an one caught up to the third heaven", and "caught up into Paradise", the MADists/Bullingerites claim Paradise is in the center of the earth.

Another problem for MAD/Bullingerism: Why would Paul (a "Body" believer) be visiting the kingdom slaves in Paradise?

Yep

Paradise is in heaven.
 

andyc

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Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


Healing in heaven, months in heaven, nations in heaven.

Sure.

I don't believe its literal, but even if it is there's no problem.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Scripture tells us where the location is.

STP has to deny that Paradise is in Heaven, or make stuff up (like more than one Paradise) because he can't have his "earthly" people living in Heaven, and he can't have his "heavenly" people living on earth.

For his MAD/Bullingerism to work, all the "kingdom slaves" have to right now be living in the center of the earth, and all the "Body believers" that have died since Paul are experiencing soul sleep right now.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
paradise is a description which can apply to any number of locations

Not according to Jesus

(Luke 23:43 KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

I don't recall the thief asking Jesus which paradise they were going to.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Scripture tells us where the location is.

Scripture also tells us that Jesus Christ went into the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights after his death.

Which is right?

Did he descend or did he "go to heaven"?
 

SaulToPaul 2

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I don't recall the thief asking Jesus which paradise they were going to.

Assuming that the thief knew any scripture, which scripture would he have used to believe that he was "going to the third heaven"?
 

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Scripture also tells us that Jesus Christ went into the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights after his death.

Which is right?

Did he descend or did he "go to heaven"?

The Bible tells us that Paradise was in the center of the earth during the OT days and before the cross, yet we know from Paul in 2 Cor that Paradise was in Heaven after the cross.

Anyone with at least a fifth grade education could figure out what happened
 

SaulToPaul 2

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The Bible tells us that Paradise was in the center of the earth during the OT days and before the cross,

When did Jesus tell the thief that the location of this paradise was going to change?
 

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Assuming that the thief knew any scripture, which scripture would he have used to believe that he was "going to the third heaven"?

See my previous post.

I agree with you that the thief went to Paradise in the center of the earth.

However, you refuse to believe that those in Paradise were taken to Heaven at some point after the resurrection.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
When did Jesus tell the thief that the location of this paradise was going to change?

He didn't.

You think those in Paradise are there so they can one day be on planet earth with Jesus. Therefore, you have to keep them in the center of the earth until this supposed day.

The Bible and common sense tells us that the believers in Paradise were only in the center of the earth until Jesus died on the cross, and paid the price for sin.

Since the cross, the believers in Paradise are now in Heaven. Jesus paved the way.
 

tetelestai

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Why did some of them go to paradise, and some of them walked around on the earth?

The believers that rose from the tombs right at the moment the veil was torn was to fulfill prophecy.

I would imagine these believers were in Paradise from the time they died until that day of the cross, since it had been hundreds of years that these people were dead.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
John 3:13 is before the cross


John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Those red letters might lie to you.


1 Tim 6:16 says no one has seen or can see God

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.



Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
 

andyc

New member
Scripture also tells us that Jesus Christ went into the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights after his death.

Which is right?

Did he descend or did he "go to heaven"?

:doh:

That's where his physical body went. I assume the thief was also buried.
 
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