ECT MADist thought for the day

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andyc

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Preterist don't believe Colossians 1:15-20, Ephesians 1:10, no more earthly kingdom restoration allowed,

You mean needed.
What use is an earthly kingdom when there is a heaven to gain?

this evil age is it so live with it and rejoice with God peoples all you nations because Romans 8:18-25 is a fulfilled hope in the preterist fable.

Sorry tet but your the one who is mad, and have let your hatred of mad doctrine muddle your ability to rationaly disern scripture and the world around you.

Preterists have good explanations regarding end times. Their views even appeal to me in some ways because they make sense, but in other ways I think they maybe trying to be too literal like the dispensationalists.
 

Zeke

Well-known member
You mean needed.
What use is an earthly kingdom when there is a heaven to gain?



Preterists have good explanations regarding end times. Their views even appeal to me in some ways because they make sense, but in other ways I think they maybe trying to be too literal like the dispensationalists.

Your perception of a need isn't the point, the scripture makes the point that both earth and heaven will be restored.

Never heard anyone complain about a preterist being to literal.
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
What would be the point?
Why not simply go to the source of all that is perfect?

Sure...GOD is indeed the source of perfection and this world is indeed imperfect.
I believe that GOD created the heavens and the earth for a continued purpose. That purpose was sidetracked by Lucifer's fall, Adam's fall and our particular sins. Christ came to redeem that which was lost. He accomplished that 'legally' at the cross. I believe that He will restore all, not to its' former glory, but to a glory that exceeds the former. I don't believe that GOD considers the material/physical as evil or something to be despised.

Rom_15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
 

andyc

New member
Sure...GOD is indeed the source of perfection and this world is indeed imperfect.
I believe that GOD created the heavens and the earth for a continued purpose. That purpose was sidetracked by Lucifer's fall, Adam's fall and our particular sins. Christ came to redeem that which was lost. He accomplished that 'legally' at the cross. I believe that He will restore all, not to its' former glory, but to a glory that exceeds the former. I don't believe that GOD considers the material/physical as evil or something to be despised.

Rom_15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

The material is not evil. Heaven surpasses it. It is the eternal kingdom of God.
 

Lazy afternoon

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Tet and I both teach that the kingdom of God/heaven is the spiritual realm, and that this is the place where God dwells with the angels. And it is the reward of the saints. We are heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ as children of God.
This was never taught anywhere in the old testament because the old covenant was made up of laws directed towards the natural man. Old covenant saints had to look beyond the law by faith to believe that God had some other plan to accept us into his presence. This is what the bible means when it says that the OT saints saw the new covenant blessings from afar.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Where Tet and I disagree (although I'm not dogmatic about it) is that I believe there is a literal anti christ still to come as per 2Thess 2:3-4, Mat 24:15. And much of what is explained in revelation is still future, also that there will probably be a national revival in Israel prior to Christ's return.

The passage you quoted is dealing with the gospel age on this earth which is now. Now is the time of great darkness where we shine the light of Christ.

Ok sounds like you are an Amillenniumist.


While dispys see a millennium of the remaking of the shadows of the OT, there are so many descriptions of the coming age given in the OT which are not given in shadow form that to miss them is a wanting of the human mind.

There is much in the NT too.

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Do you see that these are led to living waters by the Lord.

It does not look like a picture of our time, seeing as it is after great tribulation, and it can not be Heaven either.

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

This can not be a picture of our time because the saints are described as being in our time---

Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Paul was an example of these things for all after him who would believe--

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

You might ask why Paul was. Well the "kingdom now" people want to be like the apostles before the time, and the time is NOT YET.(though some individuals might be a witness of it for a short time)

Of course we are in the Kingdom of God now, but it is not yet ruling over the kingdom of the earth as is prophecied throughout the OT and written in Rev. to occur in the future at Christ's return---


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Psa 72:1 A Psalm for Solomon. Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king's son.
Psa 72:2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
Psa 72:3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
Psa 72:4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
Psa 72:5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
Psa 72:6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
Psa 72:8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
Psa 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psa 72:11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

It does not read as describing out time does it, and certainly not a description of Heaven either.

LA
 

voltaire

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Sure...GOD is indeed the source of perfection and this world is indeed imperfect.
I believe that GOD created the heavens and the earth for a continued purpose. That purpose was sidetracked by Lucifer's fall, Adam's fall and our particular sins. Christ came to redeem that which was lost. He accomplished that 'legally' at the cross. I believe that He will restore all, not to its' former glory, but to a glory that exceeds the former. I don't believe that GOD considers the material/physical as evil or something to be despised.

Rom_15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Absolutely corrrect.
 

andyc

New member
Genesis - heaven, earth, tree of life
Revelation - new heaven, new earth, tree of life


Difficult stuff to see.

In Genesis we read about an earthly tree, but in Revelation we read about a heavenly tree.

Revelation 2:7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."‘

Where is the paradise of God?

Luke 23:42-43 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

Jesus said, "today you will be with me in paradise". If he entered paradise on the day of his death, it cannot be a place in the future, but rather it is in heaven.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
In Genesis we read about an earthly tree, but in Revelation we read about a heavenly tree.


Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


Healing in heaven, months in heaven, nations in heaven.

Sure.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus said, "today you will be with me in paradise". If he entered paradise on the day of his death, it cannot be a place in the future, but rather it is in heaven.

Correct

In 2 Cor 12 Paul says he was caught up into the third heaven, and says he was caught up into Paradise.

(2 Cor 12:2 KJV) .....such an one caught up to the third heaven.

(2 Cor 12:4 KJV) How that he was caught up into paradise....

Yet the MADists/Bullingerites will claim that Paradise is in the center of the earth, and all the kingdom slaves are there right now. They claim that after Jesus comes back to earth to reign for exactly 1,000 years, the kingdom slaves in Paradise will be transported to planet earth to live as immortal people for 1,000 years.

So, even though Paul uses the phrase " such an one caught up to the third heaven", and "caught up into Paradise", the MADists/Bullingerites claim Paradise is in the center of the earth.

Another problem for MAD/Bullingerism: Why would Paul (a "Body" believer) be visiting the kingdom slaves in Paradise?
 

graceandpeace

New member
Zeke;2892704]Maybe because you falshly say he teaches the above greenpeace, I have never seen where STP has stated that any of the old types and shadow are for today, the things pertaining to the flesh was never a gentile concern God didn't make a seed covenant with them.

Another one whom denies whom the SEED was.

The bible says it was Jesus; do you have a covenant with Him?


The Spiritual body is the focus today that part we could find some agreement, but you want to exclude the seed promises pertaining to the flesh that Jesus was also fulfilling for them, and some day will deal with them again on that bases.

There was never an unconditional SEED covenant, to anyone. Israel of unbelief were cut off; and are not allowed back in, until they believe..INDIVIDUALLY..that which is the flesh is flesh; and has no hope...without faith.

I speak the truth, you can deny it if you so choose.

There is no salvation outside of the ONE seed that the bible says it takes to be saved; JESUS.

there are two hopes Revelation 3:21, speaks of two thrones and one requires overcoming Matthew 24:13, and the other doesn't because it has nothing to do with the flesh like the overcoming one does, Ephesians 2:4-6, I have shown you the two families earthly and heavenly in the scripture Ephesians1:10, 3:14-15, Colossians 1:20, but you refuse to admit its even there, so your not any easier to deal with grace when you denign clear scripture that shows you otherwise, you only see what you want to see.

Yet, the bible says that by the works of the law shall NO flesh be justified.
 

graceandpeace

New member
I do not recognize in you the person who has given their all for Christ and that is not a failing but just something that can yet happen for you.

You attribute my words to myself alone and then defend yourself instead of just taking things on board and going before the Lord with them without complaining about them.

As one man said--

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is like installing a new water pump on the old irrigation system and leaks spring up everywhere.

You try to correct other people with things which you do not know are not truth.

My observation of you is that you are like Moses trying to correct Israel in Egypt before he fled, and you know why he fled.

This below has not happened for you yet---

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

LA

:doh:
 

graceandpeace

New member
It's part of MAD101

When they can't defend their MAD/Bullingersim, they are left with no other alternative than to make everything about the person that is pointing out the errors of MAD/Bullingerism.

They will say you are a liar, that you aren't sincere, that you misrepresent them, that you cannot be reasoned with, that you are intellectually dishonest, that you are passive agressive, etc.

Everyone knows that MAD/Bullingerism cannot be defended with scripture, therefore they don't have any other option than to paint you as someone with "serious problems".

I have had this experience with 'dispensationalists' in general.

Anyone whom denies 'dispensationalism' is false doctrine usually has to do these things, also.

It is only when you can accept the fact that Jesus fully fulfilled the law and the old covenant prophets, for the generation that He Himself claimed He would do it for, in order that His NEW covenant, could be fully put in place.


I understand fully why dispensationalism is the enemy of the cross.
 

graceandpeace

New member
Depends on what degree of preterism you are talking about.

If you believe the temple destroyed in 70AD was a fulfillment of Matt 24, then you are a partial preterist.



He will come again, but He did come in judgment in 70AD



Satan is bound right now. He was bound in 70AD. Prior to 70AD satan roamed the planet like a lion looking for prey to devour.



Not in the kingdom

:wave: good post.
 
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