"Let Us Make Man In Our Image"

Lazy afternoon

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Thanks for putting words in my mouth which I never said. Here we see a verse that speaks of the Lord Jesus:

"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).​

The Mighty God is none other than JHWH:

"Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD (JHWH) of hosts, is his name" (Jer.32:18).​

Therfore, common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus is JHWH.

No.

One can be a mighty God by being the son of Yahweh, without being the creator, the Father of Jesus.

Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Heb 2:13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

LA
 

TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again daqq and Jerry,
In the portion you addressed to me: you are assuming that Paul wrote Hebrews? While that may be your assumption what I stated is not assumption because I know from Hebrews 1:6 that the author is quoting from the LXX-Septuagint.
I personally believe that Hebrews was written by Paul, but you may believe otherwise. Let us have common ground and say “the writer to the Hebrews”. I have not determined whether every OT quotation in Hebrews is from the LXX. Barnes Notes in his Section 6 Introduction to Isaiah has a listing showing that Isaiah at least is quoted in the NT sometimes from similar to the Masoretic text, sometimes similar to the LXX, but then he lists many examples where it is neither, possibly from some other Hebrew text. I have one reference book that suggests that Isaiah 6:9-10 is quoted in the NT sometimes from the LXX sense and another time from the Hebrew or Masoretic text sense.

As far as the quotation of Psalm 8:5 I believe that the writer to the Hebrews is correct in using “angels” and if this is a poor translation of the Hebrew Elohim, either by the LXX translators, or by himself, then he would be on shaky ground basing his discourse regarding Jesus and the angels in Hebrews 2.
Then I can only conclude that the "us" in these verses have nothing to do with angels:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him" (Gen.1:26,27).​
If the "us" in verse 26 is including angels then we must believe that the way the word "God" is used in verse 27 means that angels make up the Godhead.
You are certainly locked into your Trinitarian view, and we both could continue to repeat what we have already discussed.
The angels are not excluded from v27 as they were God’s assistants in the creation as clearly stated in v26. We say a great building is designed and built by some famous architect, but we don’t imagine that the architect himself laid every brick.
When one of the Judges (Elohim) spoke on Yahweh’s behalf, then this was God’s judgement, and yet God Himself (Yahweh, God the Father) was actually silent in the process. I think we both have covered the full ground of our differing views on Genesis 1:26 and Psalm 8:5, so I appreciate your interaction.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Notaclue

New member
Are you willing to argue that the Elohim who is speaking in the following verse is the same elohim which refers to angels?:

"Behold, behold that I am he, and there is no god beside me"​
(Deut.32:39).​

Are you willing to argue that?



Yes, but before He was made a little lower than the angels He was in the form of God:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men"
(Phil.2:5-7).​



Phil.2:1(KJV) If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:


Are we to think we are equal to God?


New International Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage

English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Study Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to,

Berean Literal Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

King James Bible
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

New International Version
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

New Living Translation
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Berean Study Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to,

Berean Literal Bible
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

New American Standard Bible
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

King James Bible
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be used for His own advantage.

NET Bible
who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,

New Heart English Bible
who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He who, while he was in the form of God, did not esteem this as a prize, that he was the equal of God,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.

New American Standard 1977
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

King James 2000 Bible
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not a thing to be grasped to be equal with God,

American Standard Version
who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,





Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology

3739 [e] hos ὃς who, RelPro-NMS
1722 [e] en ἐν in Prep
3444 [e] morphē μορφῇ [the] form N-DFS
2316 [e] Theou Θεοῦ of God N-GMS
5225 [e] hyparchōn ὑπάρχων subsisting V-PPA-NMS
3756 [e] ouch οὐχ not Adv
725 [e] harpagmon. be grasped N-AMS
2233 [e] hēgēsato ἡγήσατο esteemed it V-AIM-3S
3588 [e] to τὸ - Art-ANS
1510 [e] einai εἶναι to be. V-PNA
2470 [e] isa ἴσα equal Adj-ANP
2316 [e] Theō Θεῷ, with God,. N-DMS


Rom.11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counseller? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

1Cor.2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
People tend to misunderstand. God made us in his image: infinite and eternal. Things are in reverse because the personality unconsciously projects it's own image of God in the form of a man named Jesus for example.


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JudgeRightly

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Greetings again daqq and Jerry,
I personally believe that Hebrews was written by Paul, but you may believe otherwise. Let us have common ground and say “the writer to the Hebrews”.

Trevor, Paul made it very clear that his ministry was directed at the gentiles, not the Jews. Why would he write a book to the Jews if that was the case? I don't know, nor do I think anyone else knows, who actually wrote the book of Hebrews, but we can definitely rule out Paul.

This is explained in quite a lot of detail in Galatians (especially chapter 2). Paul's gospel was of uncircumcision, meaning it would have been offensive to the Jews, whereas the 12 apostles' gospel was of circumcision. And if the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, and it was, then Paul could not have written it, because the message therein is about about the Law (which is synonymous with circumcision).

On a side note, have you read or listened to Bob Enyart's "The Plot"? If not, you should. Or just read the Bible all the way through a couple of times.

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Right Divider

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Greetings again daqq and Jerry,
I personally believe that Hebrews was written by Paul, but you may believe otherwise. Let us have common ground and say “the writer to the Hebrews”.
LOL, "let us have some common ground"... LOL.... You want people to agree with your incorrect belief and call it "common ground". That's a hoot.

We do not know who wrote Hebrews, but there are VERY good indications that it was NOT Paul.,

Please read this: http://theologyonline.com/entry.php?3512-Paul-did-not-write-Hebrews-we-do-not-know-who-did
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Are we to think we are equal to God?

Of course not!

First let us examine this part in "bold":

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).

Here the Greek word translated "form" is morphē, and it means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek -English Lexicon).

It is impossible for the Lord Jesus to have the external appearance of God unless He is God. With that in mind then the following words can only be understood as relating to the Lord Jesus as God:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).

The following words of Matthew Henry explain the meaning of that which is in "bold":

"He thought it no robbery to be equal with God; did not think himself guilty of any invasion of what did not belong to him, or assuming another's right. He said, I and my Father are one, Jn. 10:30. It is the highest degree of robbery for any mere man or mere creature to pretend to be equal with God, or profess himself one with the Father...he thought it no robbery to be equal with God; he did not greedily catch at, nor covet and affect to appear in that glory; he laid aside the majesty of his former appearance while he was here on earth."
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Trevor, Paul made it very clear that his ministry was directed at the gentiles, not the Jews. Why would he write a book to the Jews if that was the case? I don't know, nor do I think anyone else knows, who actually wrote the book of Hebrews, but we can definitely rule out Paul.

This is explained in quite a lot of detail in Galatians (especially chapter 2). Paul's gospel was of uncircumcision, meaning it would have been offensive to the Jews, whereas the 12 apostles' gospel was of circumcision. And if the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, and it was, then Paul could not have written it, because the message therein is about about the Law (which is synonymous with circumcision).

On a side note, have you read or listened to Bob Enyart's "The Plot"? If not, you should. Or just read the Bible all the way through a couple of times.

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Certainly doesn't matter who wrote it because its historically untrue, the exodus never happened because its all figurative of the substance/conscience within 1Cor 3:16. Paul states that a Jew is one inwardly Romans 2:28-29 and also mentions in Galatians that neither Jew or Gentile are in Christ seeing that tabernacle is pitched without hands Acts 17:24, Galatians 4:24, and is a Kingdom not based on temporal elements Luke 17:20-21, Most are looking into the past or future for that kingdom and where has that led to? divisional theologies with Roman deception or Hebrew/Judaism master slave word puzzles that's morphed into mad dogs growling graceless sarcasm of this worlds separatists mentality/Hegels dialectic is god over all of them.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The angels are not excluded from v27 as they were God’s assistants in the creation as clearly stated in v26. We say a great building is designed and built by some famous architect, but we don’t imagine that the architect himself laid every brick.

The Scriptures will be searched in vain for any verse which say that the angels were assistants in the creation. If that was the case then why can we find any evidence in the Scriptures which state such a fact? After all, the Apostle Paul makes it plain that the Lord Jesus made all the things which have been created (Col.1:16-18).
 

JudgeRightly

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Certainly doesn't matter who wrote it because its historically untrue, the exodus never happened because its all figurative of the substance/conscience within 1Cor 3:16. Paul states that a Jew is one inwardly Romans 2:28-29 and also mentions in Galatians that neither Jew or Gentile are in Christ seeing that tabernacle is pitched without hands Acts 17:24, Galatians 4:24, and is a Kingdom not based on temporal elements Luke 17:20-21, Most are looking into the past or future for that kingdom and where has that led to? divisional theologies with Roman deception or Hebrew/Judaism master slave word puzzles that's morphed into mad dogs growling graceless sarcasm of this worlds separatists mentality/Hegels dialectic is god over all of them.
1. wat
2. wat
3. So you're saying that the Bible doesn't match what happened? Wat.

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TrevorL

Well-known member
Greetings again JudgeRightly and Right Divider,
Trevor, Paul made it very clear that his ministry was directed at the gentiles, not the Jews. Why would he write a book to the Jews if that was the case? I don't know, nor do I think anyone else knows, who actually wrote the book of Hebrews, but we can definitely rule out Paul.

This is explained in quite a lot of detail in Galatians (especially chapter 2). Paul's gospel was of uncircumcision, meaning it would have been offensive to the Jews, whereas the 12 apostles' gospel was of circumcision. And if the book of Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, and it was, then Paul could not have written it, because the message therein is about about the Law (which is synonymous with circumcision).

On a side note, have you read or listened to Bob Enyart's "The Plot"? If not, you should. Or just read the Bible all the way through a couple of times.
I appreciate your comments. No I have not read this book, but what you have stated above is not sufficient to change my mind as yet. One of our speakers gave a series of addresses concerning Paul’s collection of funds for the poor in Jerusalem and Judea. I believe that the gospel preached to the Gentiles is the same preached to the Jews, and the same gospel is preached in the Letter to the Hebrews. I am not wanting to discuss this at length, either here or in a new thread.
LOL, "let us have some common ground"... LOL.... You want people to agree with your incorrect belief and call it "common ground". That's a hoot.

We do not know who wrote Hebrews, but there are VERY good indications that it was NOT Paul.
You misunderstand me wrt “common ground”. I appreciate the reference.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Prizebeatz1

New member
Maybe you're just not that bright then. But to claim that YOU are INFINITE is a false claim to be God. Only God has that attribute.

You are drawing your own conclusions about the truth so you are the one who has to deal with it, not me. Quit projecting your irritations and learn to face your own problems.


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