Lesbian Methodist Minister

Galadrial

New member
Originally posted by Christine

Thank you for answering. :) Now for the next question, why are you attending a church that openly promotes homosexuality?

why? you ask?
b/c even though I believe homosexuality is a sin . Their are always going to be ppl out their that believe in it and I might as well face them. Then, go running and hidding from them.:D
Or allow then to control the way I live my life, and where I go......
 

HerodionRomulus

New member
Originally posted by Nineveh

: sigh :

I object to HR misreperesenting what happened at Sodom, what part of this are you not understanding?

I've read the Bible, therefore I know that the sin of Sodom was not sexual orientation.

Gn 13:13 "Now the people of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the LORD." But it does not say why.

In Gn 18 Abraham bargains with God that if only 10 good people could be found, the city would be spared.
Note that before ANYTHING happened at Lot's
THIS occured: "But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man bold emphasis mine

The Bible is full of references to Sodom and often compares contemporary situations to Sodom, condemning current situations and people for doing what Sodom had done.

NONE of the comparisons ever mention anything of a homosexual or homo-erotic nature.

These Scriptues are:
Deuteronomy 29:23; 32:32;
Judges 19 & 20;
Isaiah 1:9-11;
3:9; "Their partiality witnesses against them; they proclaim their sin like Sodom, they do not hide it." partiality not sexuality.
13:19;

Jeremiah 5:1;
23:14; " But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomor'rah." adultery and lies, not homosexuality.
49:18;
50:40;

Ezekiel 16:49-50; "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it."

Zephaniah 2:9;
Amos 4:11;
Lamentations 2:6;
Hosea 11:8;

Wisdom 10:6;
19:13-17; "The punishments did not come upon the sinners without prior signs in the violence of thunder, for they(Egypt) justly suffered because of their wicked acts; for they(Egypt) practiced a more bitter hatred of strangers. Others(Sodom) had refused to receive strangers when they came to them, but these(Egypt) made slaves of guests who were their benefactors. And not only so but, while punishment of some sort will come upon the former(Sodom) for having received strangers with hostility, the latter(Egypt), having first received them with festal celebrations, afterward afflicted with terrible sufferings those who had already shared the same rights. They(Egypt) were stricken also with loss of sight just as were those(Sodom) at the door of the righteous man when, surrounded by yawning darkness, all of them tried to find the way through their own doors."
place names added for clarity. Problem: hostility, inhospitality--not a word about sexuality.

Sirach 16:8-11; ""He did not spare the neighbors of Lot, whom he loathed on account of their arrogance...." arrogance not homosexuality.

III Maccabees 2:5;
Revelation 11:8;
Matthew 10:7-15;
11:20-24;

Luke 9:54;
10:12; " "But whenever you enter a town and they do not welcome you, go out into its streets and say, ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet, we wipe off in protest against you. Yet know this: the kingdom of God has come near.’ I tell you, on that day it will be more tolerable for Sodom than for that town." Inhospitality, not sexuality.

Romans 9:29;
II Peter 2:6;
Jude 1:7.

These passages list many wrongs: murder, hatred, hostility, lack of hospitality--but never homosexuality.

Many of these wrong behaviors attributed to Sodom are the same attitudes and actions demonstrated towards gay people in modern society and in certain Christian circles.
 
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Nineveh

Merely Christian
HR,
I understand you deseperately want to make sodomy a good thing, but it's not. No matter how you go about it. You can ignore the record, but that doesn't change it any.

Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom-both young and old-surrounded the house. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

This wasn't Sodom's only sin, I don't recall anyone saying it was. However, trying to down play sodomy being part of it only exposes your agenda.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Funny that the prophets never mention the sex crimes of Sodom when they talk about that town...
 

HerodionRomulus

New member
The city was condemned BEFORE anything happened. There were less than 10, so it did not matter if they stood on their heads and sang "There once was a lady from Nantucket..." the condemnation was fixed BEFORE the verse you like to cite to the exclusion of the rest of the story.

Not ONE OT mention of Sodom mentions sex or homosexuality or anything remotely like it. Ditto for the NT.
Jesus clearly thought it was something else.

Please explain how Jesus, Isaiah, Ezekiel and the rest could be soooooooooooooo ignorant of what happened.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Originally posted by granite1010

Funny that the prophets never mention the sex crimes of Sodom when they talk about that town...

But granite, they do.

Read what HR posted:

Jeremiah 5:1;
23:14; " But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomor'rah."

Ezekiel 16:49-50; "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it."

If the actual account of the event isn't enough to convince you sodomy had something to do with it, what good would it do to list sodomy every time Sodom is spoken of?
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Originally posted by HerodionRomulus

The city was condemned BEFORE anything happened. There were less than 10, so it did not matter if they stood on their heads and sang "There once was a lady from Nantucket..." the condemnation was fixed BEFORE the verse you like to cite to the exclusion of the rest of the story.

Not ONE OT mention of Sodom mentions sex or homosexuality or anything remotely like it. Ditto for the NT.
Jesus clearly thought it was something else.

Except:

"Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Sodomy is most certainly condemned both OT and NT. But you have an agenda to push, so no amount of debate or evidence in the world will convince you of the need for homosexuals to turn from their sin, will it?

Please explain how Jesus, Isaiah, Ezekiel and the rest could be soooooooooooooo ignorant of what happened.

They aren't. You are. And worse, willfully so.

Why is that?
 

Frank Ernest

New member
Hall of Fame
Originally posted by HerodionRomulus

The city was condemned BEFORE anything happened. There were less than 10, so it did not matter if they stood on their heads and sang "There once was a lady from Nantucket..." the condemnation was fixed BEFORE the verse you like to cite to the exclusion of the rest of the story.

Not ONE OT mention of Sodom mentions sex or homosexuality or anything remotely like it. Ditto for the NT.
Jesus clearly thought it was something else.
Posted by Nineveh
Except:

"Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

Sodomy is most certainly condemned both OT and NT. But you have an agenda to push, so no amount of debate or evidence in the world will convince you of the need for homosexuals to turn from their sin, will it?
HerodianRomulus
Please explain how Jesus, Isaiah, Ezekiel and the rest could be soooooooooooooo ignorant of what happened.
Nineveh
They aren't. You are. And worse, willfully so.

Why is that?
BINGO!
 

HerodionRomulus

New member
Originally posted by Nineveh

But granite, they do.

Read what HR posted:

Jeremiah 5:1;
23:14; " But in the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: they commit adultery and walk in lies; they strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness; all of them have become like Sodom to me, and its inhabitants like Gomor'rah."

Ezekiel 16:49-50; "Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it."

If the actual account of the event isn't enough to convince you sodomy had something to do with it, what good would it do to list sodomy every time Sodom is spoken of?


gee but strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that no one turns from his wickedness is an odd way to describe sex.

and abominable things are not equivalent to sex. Bearing false witness and slinging insults is pretty abominable, as is advocating mass murder but you do these things all the time and rejoice in your advocacy of death and destruction.


Read the following carefully:
Not one thing in Genesis says that homosexuality is wrong.
Attempted rape in ch 19 is wrong, I never said it wasn't but rape is not the same thing as sexual orientation.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Originally posted by HerodionRomulus

and abominable things are not equivalent to sex.

Are you that desperate to save sodomy?

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Acording to you sodomy isn't abominable, but according to God it is.

Bearing false witness and slinging insults is pretty abominable

Yeah, it is, so quit.

Read the following carefully:
Not one thing in Genesis says that homosexuality is wrong. Attempted rape in ch 19 is wrong, I never said it wasn't but rape is not the same thing as sexual orientation.

Ok, so are you saying we can ignore the Law because God didn't put the whole Bible in Genesis?
 
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