Killing in the Name of...

[Nihilo]

This concerns politics.

Let's take the stance for the sake of argument that after a certain age, a human being is physiologically incapable (that is, it is physically, logically impossible) of changing their mind.

Let's further take the stance that killing human beings in order to extinguish an antisocial faith is verboten. Whatever we think about moral offenses, we agree that killing in order to extinguish the motive faith that animates such antisocial behavior (which defines the faith as antisocial; its fruit), is off the table.

Spoiler

Let's not take these stances and judge the actions of the past, but only look at today and tomorrow; yesterday is a step along the journey, and we're trying to focus here on the present and on the future, if we can agree on this.

Given the above, how do we deal with people who only live because we have mercifully granted them their lives, because in another time, they would be condemned and killed, by us, humanity, in the hopes of extinguishing forever the motivating faith residing in a person above a certain age who commits antisocial crimes, even regularly.

Spoiler

I think the first takeaway from such conditions is that we are claiming responsibility for every crime that any of us commit. We won't kill, because we claim responsibility for the crime ourselves, we committed the necessary and sufficient conditions for the crime to occur. All that was needed was a hapless immoral person to come along and trip the tripwire that we constructed, in committing the necessary and sufficient conditions for the crime to occur, needing only a criminal to play the part of evil.

We admit that we are the reason evil lives. We have created the perfect climate for the criminal. We have prepared them personally to commit crimes, and we have prepared the conditions for crime, and then we arrest and prosecute the criminals.

The least we can do is not kill them, given what they had to deal with.

Spoiler

I personally believe that promiscuous people are worthy of execution. They are among those who only live because we let you live, instead of give you what you deserve, which is to be killed. Because the faith that tolerates, protects or engages in the promiscuous lifestyle should be killed. The only way to extinguish a cancerous idea like that is to kill those who believe in it, and quickly and mercilessly, because that faith is destructive of us all. Your right does not extend to a right to destroy us all; our necessity is to protect ourselves from your diseased notion of life, which is tantamount to tolerating excrement all around your livingquarters, never cleaning it up, and even asking people with a straight face, "What smell?"

What should we the Church do?

 

[jamie]

What should we the Church do?

It's Satan's world, not ours yet.

 

[meshak]

]What should we the Church do?

Jesus says His followers are not of the world. The politics are of the world. His followers should not get involved with the politics.

 

[glassjester]

What should we the Church do?

Why should we assume that anyone's physically incapable of changing his mind?

 

[Tambora]

Jesus says His followers are not of the world. The politics are of the world. His followers should not get involved with the politics.

Lame.
Politics are used to determine wages, fines, licences, benefits, laws, taxes, regulations, which side of the street you can drive on, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
You live according to politics every day of your life.

 

[Tambora]

Why should we assume that anyone's physically incapable of changing his mind?

That's what I was wondering.
Seems like a very boxed in parameter to begin with.

 

[meshak]

Lame.
Politics are used to determine wages, fines, licences, benefits, laws, taxes, regulations, which side of the street you can drive on, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
You live according to politics every day of your life.

thanks for your opinion.

peace.

 

[Tambora]

thanks for your opinion.

peace.

Lame thanks.
It's so you.

 

[ok doser]

good day to you sir

 

[meshak]

Lame thanks.
It's so you.

Ok, thanks.

 

[Nihilo]

It's Satan's world, not ours yet.

Jesus says His followers are not of the world. The politics are of the world. His followers should not get involved with the politics.

Understanding that we are in the world but not of the world, what should we the Church do, with or about those who sin?

 

[Nihilo]

Why should we assume that anyone's physically incapable of changing his mind?

That's what I was wondering.
Seems like a very boxed in parameter to begin with.

Two reasons. One is the behavior on this forum. The other is that, this is what they're doing, those who are against capital punishment. They are acting as if they believe in a faith that people are, after a certain age, fixed and unchangeable in their views, in large part.

Although it's based on anecdotal evidence and needs more corroboration, it seems that the Lord is welcome by administrators in many prisons, because sometimes He does change criminals. He, along with some limited number of other methods, has been proven in many cases to be effective against recidivism.

 

[jamie]

Understanding that we are in the world but not of the world, what should we the Church do, with or about those who sin?

We should give a ready answer as to the hope that lies within us.

And we should explain what sin is and that sin does not reflect love.

 

[jamie]

Two reasons. One is the behavior on this forum. The other is that, this is what they're doing, those who are against capital punishment.

There are two types of capital punishment, one is execution and the other is life in prison without the possibility of parole. Both are death sentences, but execution allows a person to get on with their life instead of being confined like an animal until they die.

 

[glassjester]

​

Two reasons. One is the behavior on this forum. The other is that, this is what they're doing, those who are against capital punishment. They are acting as if they believe in a faith that people are, after a certain age, fixed and unchangeable in their views, in large part.

Although it's based on anecdotal evidence and needs more corroboration, it seems that the Lord is welcome by administrators in many prisons, because sometimes He does change criminals. He, along with some limited number of other methods, has been proven in many cases to be effective against recidivism.

So you don't personally believe in the premises you set forth?

Then the answer to your question about what we, the Church should do is: evangelize.

 

[meshak]

Understanding that we are in the world but not of the world, what should we the Church do, with or about those who sin?

Jesus' followers responsibility is to spread Jesus' word and God's kingdom.

This world will take care of itself.

 

[Nihilo]

So you don't personally believe in the premises you set forth?

I wrote "for the sake of argument." Let's, no matter how wrongheaded we may believe it to be, to not kill people who practice and who preach sin, take the death penalty off the table, and think about what to do as the Church.

Then the answer to your question about what we, the Church should do is: evangelize.

What do we do with the grave sinners who've committed and who commit moral offenses worthy of death? How do we the Church relate to them? You suggest evangelism and that makes me think of the quote-unquote new evangelism; is the new evangelism pertinent here? Today, the Church finds herself in a similar world as the first century Roman empire, and yet also very very different, in regard to the OP.

Promiscuity abounds as it did then. But then, as the Church grew and grew, cultural sentiment toward promiscuity shifted from tolerance and encouragement, toward intolerance. Today with the Church at her largest population ever, our western culture seems to be evoking an attitude toward promiscuity that resembles the ancient Roman culture again, and so there are many promiscuous people once again among us; and we ourselves may be promiscuous.

As I said, I believe promiscuity to be a crime worthy of death, for the reasons I alluded to in the OP. The Church teaches that promiscuity is a fatal/mortal trespass, which means the same thing. We can't undo these trespasses, and there are many people whom we love who are presently living the promiscuous lifestyle. Some of us are innocent victims of it, like former Secretary Hillary Clinton, married to a promiscuous husband, but we agree not to kill him for it.

And I'm sorry to say, but this is what the Apostle St. Paul writes, "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

 

[Nihilo]

Jesus' followers responsibility is to spread Jesus' word and God's kingdom.

This world will take care of itself.

So does that mean ignore sin? Just "spread Jesus' word" and act like feces don't stink? 'Cause they do. Stink.

 

[meshak]

So does that mean ignore sin? Just "spread Jesus' word" and act like feces don't stink? 'Cause they do. Stink.

You seem to have so much confidence in yourself. I don't think this world need your help. They can handle their problems by themselves.

If you claim to be Jesus' follower, you should pay attention to His word.

 

[Nihilo]

You seem to have so much confidence in yourself. I don't think this world need your help. They can handle their problems by themselves.

If you claim to be Jesus' follower, you should pay attention to His word.

I'm not talking about their problems. Their promiscuity and drunkenness and idolatry are our problem, because while we're not of the world, we are in it. What do you do with people who do these things? Are you friendly? Do you ignore them and their sin? Do you invite them over for dinner or fraternize with them? And do you tell them that their habits and their philosophies are deserving of death, that we humans would literally be better off if everybody who practiced and preached grave matter were executed?

How do you do it now? Do you only pay attention to Jesus' word, and pay no attention to seeds of societal destruction?