John Calvin said this....

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HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
According to the Bible, one must, hear the Message of Salvation,
place one's faith in Christ as their Savior, be sealed, indwelt, and
baptized (not by water) into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
Is that what occurred in your life?
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Yes... But I know I could not have placed my faith in Christ without the Holy Spirit intervening first.
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Because, Calvinists "misinterpret" Scripture to make it fit their
belief system.
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And so do you... so what is your point?

Although I would say that Ephesians 1 is pretty clear on the matter.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guaranteed of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,e to the praise of his glory.

For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.
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Clete

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
HisServant said:
You can say that of every 'ism'... including yours.

We are all that lump of clay that is trying to question the potters intent.

Eventually you just have to let go and acknowledge that God is sovereign over all... and let the unknowns be unknown... instead of making god in our own image.
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This of course can only happen if God commands it to happen which of course would only be God reversing his prior decree that we should make gods in our own image. :kookoo:

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Calvinists believe they must be saved, before they hear the message of their salvation. That's a bit convoluted.
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The darkness hates the light and would never chose the light... so he needs to intervene first.

Not convoluted at all... there is nothing in you that has any redeeming quality when you stand before God. So it is by God's grace and purpose in election that he calls his elect to himself.
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
I became a "Child of God" "The Old Fashion way." I heard the Grace
Message and placed my faith in Christ as my Savior and the Holy
Spirit did the rest. At twelve years old, I did it without John Calvin.
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That is not an 'old fashion way'... its actually pretty much a 'new age way'.

I didn't need Calvin to be saved either... it's just that when you mature in the word and look back at what happened, his take on scripture makes the entire process a LOT clearer.

I didn't have any clue who John Calvin was before I went to college... and I was saved at 8 sitting in the back of a station wagon with two of my cousins that had just returned from the mission field (Japan). Its my most vivid memory of child hood.
 
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Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Matthew 23:37 states: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

This verse shows that (God the Son) longed for the House of Israel to cling to Him yet, they would not. They had a "choice" not to. That's obvious.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
HisServant said:
That is not an 'old fashion way'... its actually pretty much a 'new age way'.

I didn't need Calvin to be saved either... it's just that when you mature in the word and look back at what happened, his take on scripture makes the entire process a LOT clearer.
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In 1962, "New-Age" wasn't even heard of in my circles. I was 12 years
old at the time. You have obviously been indoctrinated by Calvinistic
doctrine. It didn't just make its way into your mind by osmosis.
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Matthew 23:37 states: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

This verse shows that (God the Son) longed for the House of Israel to cling to Him yet, they would not. They had a "choice" not to. That's obvious.
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If you interpret it that way, then you have to come to the conclusion that your god is inept.

Just because God longs for something does not make him contradict his other immutable attributes. God has chosen some people for glory and some for damnation.. there is no way around that.

If we truly had a choice, than there would have been no need for Jesus... think about it.
 
H

HisServant

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
In 1962, "New-Age" wasn't even heard of in my circles. I was 12 years
old at the time. You have obviously been indoctrinated by Calvinistic
doctrine. It didn't just make its way into your mind by osmosis.
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For me, 'new age' christianity started during the age of sensationalism that arose in America in the mid 1700's till around 1900... where you had the explosion of new fangled denominations like the SDA, Mormonism, Dispensationalism, fundamentalism, Jehovah's Witnesses. etc. You also see the den of vipers (Dallas Theological Seminary) show up.

I bet you can trace your beliefs back to doctrines that were developed during that time period.
 
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