John 10:30 – Jesus is The Son of God

[freelight]

Honoring God and his servants.................

Honoring God and his servants.................

Let us look at the verse again:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

I don't know about you, but the best way that I honor God is by worshipping Him. So I honor God when I worship Him. And since the Lord Jesus says that we should "honor"Him even as we "honor" the Father then if I do that then I must worship the Lord Jesus.

Of course we honor Jesus, just as we honor the Father, because He is God's Son, his anointed, his messenger, his representative. As I shared earlier, the 'honor' is one, because 'God' is one. Since the Son does the will of the Father, he is naturally honored accordingly. While 'honor' may include a sense of 'worship', 'reverence',...I don't think that's the main meaning here, its more appropriately 'honor' or 'respect'. Most English translations use the word 'honor',....not 'worship'. You might also know that by sharing a Unitarian POV, I am certainly NOT dishonoring Jesus in anyway, since to honor him is to honor God. Theirs is a shared reverence, a mutual respect,...you cannot separate the Sender from the one sent.

In fact, one of the meanings of the Greek word translated "honor" is "revere" (Thayer'sGreek English Lexicon).

And that matches the following meaning (in "bold") of the Greek word translated "worship":

"to make obeisance, do reverence to" (from pros, "towards," and kuneo, "to kiss"), is the most frequent word rendered "to worship." It is used of an act of homage or reverence" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).​

The dictionary also defines "worship" in the same way:

"reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also: an act of expressing such reverence" (Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary).​

Again,...honoring the Son is honoring the Father, and vice versa of course,...this goes without saying

If you are not worshipping the Son to honor Him as you do the Father then you are not honoring the Father:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

We honor the Father by worshipping Him and we are to honor the Lord Jesus as we honor the Father. Therefore, we must worship the Lord Jesus. And as you said, "the worship of God is singular to God himself."

Therefore, common sense dictates that the Lord Jesus is God.

Honoring Jesus as we honor God because Jesus is God's Son, Messenger, Anointed one....does not make Jesus 'God'.

Now a question for you. Do you honor the Father when you worship Him?

Of course. To honor God is to honor all those who represent Him as well.

Thanks!

You're welcome. I share more of my views in Kingdom Rose's thread here....from post# 77 onwards - for those familiar with my theology, my view includes aspects of both Unitarianism & Trinitarinism, and beyond. My Christology is liberal and eclectic.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

freelight,

I asked you:

Do you honor the Father when you worship Him?​

Here is your answer:

Of course.

Since you "honor" the Father when you "worship" Him then, in order to "honor" the Son as you do the Father, then you must "honor" the Son by worshipping Him also:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

There is no getting around those facts.

Besides, if you refuse to honor the Son by worshipping Him then you are dishonoring the Father.

And I am sure that you do not want to do that, do you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

freelight,

I asked you:

Do you honor the Father when you worship Him?​

Here is your answer:



Since you "honor" the Father when you "worship" Him then, in order to "honor" the Son as you do the Father, then you must "honor" the Son by worshipping Him also:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

There is no getting around those facts.

Besides, if you refuse to honor the Son by worshipping Him then you are dishonoring the Father.

And I am sure that you do not want to do that, do you?

Freelight is not a Christian. He's a New Age, Spiritualist/Occultist who adheres to "The Urantia Book" UFO Cult.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Christ came to show us how to honor his God. He said he could do nothing but serve his God. He said his Father is greater than all.

What you say can be explained by the following passage:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-7).​

Here we see that the Lord Jesus was made in the likeness of men. In fact, He was made like us in every way (Heb.2:17). And every "man" has a God:

"The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all" (Ps.103:19).​

The LORD is in total control over the universe which He created, so therefore He rules over it all and that includes all "men." And since the Lord Jesus was made like a man in all things that means that in His role as "Man" He has a God.

When we consider Philippians 2:5-7 again we can see that before the Lord Jesus took on the form of man that He was in the form of God.

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So since the Lord Jesus was in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He appeared to the inhabitants of heaven.

And He couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God.

 

[marhig]

lol - lets back track on Saul to Paul's little formula




I believe STP is presenting a basic Trinitarian formula...showing that all these 3 persons are 'God', or (of God)....'God' being the one original universal divine essence. So there is the one divine essence which all these personalities share, making them essentially One in essence, but different in personality-form and function. I'm sure you know the Trinitarian liberties with this formula of 'compound unity' metaphysics

View attachment 25039

So you see, all 3 personalities are of 'God', the one essence. We could in a more liberal sense extend this to all sentient beings, all spirit-souls,....in that we are 'of God', being God's offspring, his children. Just like the psalmist says,..."did I not say ye are gods (of God), and children of the most high?" If God is really a Person, as the Universal Father,..then that Father, Our Father is the father of all 'personality' and all personalities, so its a big cosmic family of personalities

Hi freelight

I believe that they are all of the same nature, heart and mind, but I believe that there is only one God over all and he's the father and he is in all and through all including those who belong to him, and they will be of the same nature heart and mind and you will see Christ in them because like him, they are born of God by the spirit only Jesus was always born of the spirit, we are to be born anew.

And the more we deny in this world and the flesh, the stronger we become in the spirit and we become more like Jesus. Jesus had the nothing of the flesh in him and he didn't sin, so he had the fullness of God and the full strength of the holy spirit. And because he has overcome the world, he can strengthen us to do the same too, if we obey God and do his will and listen to the guidance of the spirit.

 

[marhig]

Jerry, you do not need to make someone God to honor them. Christ came to show us how to honor his God. He said he could do nothing but serve his God. He said his Father is greater than all. Jesus was not looking for honor. Does he deserve honor? Yes, as the Son of God and as the Lord of all creation. But not as the most high God.

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I saw this today keypurr, that when a woman truly loves a man, she will do her all for him, even give her life. But if she doesn't truly love him, she will love her own life and not really bother with him.

And I saw this is like those who truly love God and those who say that they love him with their mouths but they don't live it. Because if we truly loved God, we would want to please him as Jesus did, you could see Jesus loved God with all his heart by his life and God blessed him with the power of the holy spirit. And if we truly love God we'll give up our lives for him, and live a life to please him and do his will. If not we will love our own lives to please ourselves and put God last.

And that's how you know the true followers of Jesus, you will see him in their lives and you will see that they love God and they will have the strength of the spirit to overcome and to speak, they will be living to please God. Jesus came showed us the way to do this he showed us the way back to God and reconciled us by his word and life, those who belong to God enter a new and living way to worship God in spirit and in truth and they follow the path that Christ Jesus laid he's our cornerstone and his perfect life is our example to follow.

 

[keypurr]

I saw this today keypurr, that when a woman truly loves a man, she will do her all for him, even give her life. But if she doesn't truly love him, she will love her own life and not really bother with him.

And I saw this is like those who truly love God and those who say that they love him with their mouths but they don't live it. Because if we truly loved God, we would want to please him as Jesus did, you could see Jesus loved God with all his heart by his life and God blessed him with the power of the holy spirit. And if we truly love God we'll give up our lives for him, and live a life to please him and do his will. If not we will love our own lives to please ourselves and put God last.

And that's how you know the true followers of Jesus, you will see him in their lives and you will see that they love God and they will have the strength of the spirit to overcome and to speak, they will be living to please God. Jesus came showed us the way to do this he showed us the way back to God and reconciled us by his word and life, those who belong to God enter a new and living way to worship God in spirit and in truth and they follow the path that Christ Jesus laid he's our cornerstone and his perfect life is our example to follow.

You have wisdom friend.

To know God and his Son is to love them. You will display your faith by your actions, just as our Lord did. Christ did not come to please man, he came to please his God.


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[Jerry Shugart]

Freelight is not a Christian. He's a New Age, Spiritualist/Occultist who adheres to "The Urantia Book" UFO Cult.

Thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

To know God and his Son is to love them. You will display your faith by your actions, just as our Lord did. Christ did not come to please man, he came to please his God.

If you really love the Lord Jesus then you will honor Him in the same way that you honor the Father:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

I honor the Father when I worship Him. So if I am going to honor the Son like I do the Father then I must also worship the Son. And that I do.

Do you worship the Father? If you follow what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:23 then you must also worship the Son.

Do you do that? If not, why not?

 

[keypurr]

If you really love the Lord Jesus then you will honor Him in the same way that you honor the Father:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

I honor the Father when I worship Him. So if I am going to honor the Son like I do the Father then I must also worship the Son. And that I do.

Do you worship the Father? If you follow what the Lord Jesus said at John 5:23 then you must also worship the Son.

Do you do that? If not, why not?

Jerry, I have one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ and I do honor them. But only one is the true God. I have the same God that Christ has. The glory of the Father is greater than the glory of the Son. For it is the Father that gives glory to the Son.

Sent from my A622GL using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jesus came showed us the way to do this he showed us the way back to God and reconciled us by his word and life...

Yes, when the Lord Jesus came to the earth he came from heaven:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).​

And here:

"What and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).​

Everyone who heard the Lord Jesus say that they would know that He was claiming to be God, the one in "bold" in this verse:

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

Also, when the Lord Jesus said that He is "from above" in this verse would also know that He was claiming to be God:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

Those who do not believe that He is God will die in their sins.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, I have one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ and I do honor them.

Do you not honor the Father when you worship Him? Of course you do!

And if you are going to honor the Son like you do the Father then you must also worship the Son. Here the Lord is describing those who do not worship Him:

"This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me" (Mt.15:8).​

In order to honor the son like the Father it is necessary to worship the Son. Those who refuse to do that prove that their hearts are far from the Lord Jesus.

 

[marhig]

Yes, when the Lord Jesus came to the earth he came from heaven:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man which is in heaven" (Jn.3:13).​

And here:

"What and if ye shall see the son of man ascend up where he was before?" (Jn.6:62).​

Everyone who heard the Lord Jesus say that they would know that He was claiming to be God, the one in "bold" in this verse:

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

Also, when the Lord Jesus said that He is "from above" in this verse would also know that He was claiming to be God:

"And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" (Jn.8:23-24).​

Those who do not believe that He is God will die in their sins.

Jesus is not talking about believing that he is God, but believing that he is the son of God. None of those verses say that Jesus is God, no matter how you try to make them mean that.

1 John 4:15

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

John 3

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.*He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 20:31

But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Nothing here about believing that Jesus is God, but that we belong to God and have life by believing on the son of God.

Can you show me a clear verse which says that we must confess that Jesus is God, or that we must believe that Jesus is God to inherit eternal life? Because as far as I can see, it says in the Bible that we must believe that Jesus is the son of God which I do! And not only do I believe but I know, and I know he is the Christ. And I have shown you clear verses as why I believe as I do.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Because as far as I can see, it says in the Bible that we must believe that Jesus is the son of God which i do.

Why do you not believe that the Lord Jesus is God? Here the Apostle John makes it clear that He is God:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life" (1 Jn.5:20).​

It is the Lord Jesus who is God and is also called "eternal life" here:

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us)" (1 Jn.1:1-2).​

The following verse is in regard to what John said about the Lord Jesus being with the Father, and no doubt He is described as the one in "bold":

"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones" (Isa.57:15).​

 

[freelight]

freelight,

I asked you:

Do you honor the Father when you worship Him?​

Here is your answer:



Since you "honor" the Father when you "worship" Him then, in order to "honor" the Son as you do the Father, then you must "honor" the Son by worshipping Him also:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (v.23).​

There is no getting around those facts.

Besides, if you refuse to honor the Son by worshipping Him then you are dishonoring the Father.

And I am sure that you do not want to do that, do you?

I've already answered the questioned adequately. Review.

 

[Right Divider]

Of course you did not address what the Lord Jesus said here:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

If the Lord Jesus is not God then what He said there is blasphemy of the worse kind. How do you defend the Lord Jesus' words there since you do not believe that He is God?

keypurr, and many othesr here, miss the multitude of references to Christ's deity and fixate on a few verses that they claim says otherwise.

John 5:23 is ROCK solid.

 

[freelight]

the truth of the matter.....

the truth of the matter.....

Freelight is not a Christian. He's a New Age, Spiritualist/Occultist who adheres to "The Urantia Book" UFO Cult.

This is false. I've already addressed GM about the Urantia Book here, for those interested. His ignorance is a part of the circus show of his trolling tactics and buffoonery. Those who know me, know I'm very eclectic and a student of many different schools and religious traditions. The Urantia Book (UB) is just one religious book I've read over the years, among others having a universal religious siginificance. My contribtions on the UB thread are creative dialogue exercises as are all my discussions.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

This is false. I've already addressed GM about the Urantia Book here, for those interested. His ignorance is a part of the circus show of his trolling tactics and buffoonery. Those who know me, know I'm very eclectic and a student of many different schools and religious traditions. The Urantia Book (UB) is just one religious book I've read over the years, among others having a universal religious siginificance. My contribtions on the UB thread are creative dialogue exercises as are all my discussions.

Those that know you on TOL realize you're mentally sold out to the occult, Spiritualism, nuttiness, absurd beliefs, ridiculous theories, and non-Christian ideology. How's that for starters?

 

[freelight]

Blessings

Blessings

Hi freelight

I believe that they are all of the same nature, heart and mind, but I believe that there is only one God over all and he's the father and he is in all and through all including those who belong to him, and they will be of the same nature heart and mind and you will see Christ in them because like him, they are born of God by the spirit only Jesus was always born of the spirit, we are to be born anew.

And the more we deny in this world and the flesh, the stronger we become in the spirit and we become more like Jesus. Jesus had the nothing of the flesh in him and he didn't sin, so he had the fullness of God and the full strength of the holy spirit. And because he has overcome the world, he can strengthen us to do the same too, if we obey God and do his will and listen to the guidance of the spirit.

:thumb:

This is all that is essential. God is Spirit. God is One. Only the Spirit is LIFE.

"he who does the will of God shall remain forever"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

One, need only check out the Urantia thread you hang out in to find out what kind of "BIZARRO" stuff you're into. You can't talk your way out of the fact that, you have outlandish theories and strange beliefs.