beameup
New member
Perhaps Moses "slipped" as he was "chipping" the paleo-Hebrew into the stone... yes, that would be the "rabbinical" explanation. :kookoo:
Jesus is God.
- Thread starter jzeidler
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Perhaps Moses "slipped" as he was "chipping" the paleo-Hebrew into the stone... yes, that would be the "rabbinical" explanation. :kookoo:
dodge
New member
Do you believe Jesus was without sin ?
I assume you do so answer this question for me.
When Thomas said:
Jhn 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
If Jesus was " not " God and Jesus did not correct Thomas when Thomas called Jesus his LORD his God would that not have been a sin ?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs"d
Luke 3:22 (KJV 1900)
220" And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."
Does it say that all three are gods? Does it say that those three supposed gods are one?
If not, then there is no trinity.
So you have there two of your gods in bodily form, a dove and a man.
"You saw no form of any kind the day Y-H-W-H spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things Y-H-W-H your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven."
Deut 4:15-19
Oh what is it difficult not to worship idols....
"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Ex 20:1+2
You're living in a river, you're living in da nile
6days
New member
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
You are attempting to conflate words. John 1 is clearly calling a person the Word. 'HE was with God, He was God'. In John 14:24 Jesus is talking about His spoken words being from the Father.
Yes! We see the humanity, and the divinity of Jesus here. Jesus is saying in v48 that there is One who will judge. In scripture, we see that it is Jesus who someday will be our judge. He is Lord...He is the Righteous Judge.
John 12
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Compare to...
2Tim. 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
8 ..., which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing
God, the Father calls the Son "God"... You reject Him.
Heb. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever
marhig
Well-known member
How strange, I've just been reading John 12 before I saw your post and I saw this which you have also put in your post Jesus clearly here tells us that every word he speaks is from the father. As it is not his own words.
John 12
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.*And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
You've also brought up 2 Timothy 4 which says
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
So there is God and Christ, he doesn't see them as father and son equalling one God, but as God and Christ, so God is separate from Christ.
Jesus isn't God they are separate, but they are one as in they have the same heart, and we are at one with them when we belong to Christ and his life is in us.
Jesus Christ judged through the word of God by preaching the gospel, and now he judges through his people, those who bring the word to others. The word of God judges, separates and divides those who believe and those who don't. Those who do believe become stronger in God the more they deny the flesh. The more we fight ourselves, the stronger we become in spirit.
I believe that Christ is the highest in heaven and God has put everything in his hands and everything is under him, but God is higher, I love Jesus with all my heart because without him I'd be dead in my sins, now i know the living God and I'm alive in the spirit because of him laying down his life to bring God to us, to bring us truth and share the gospel he came in this sinful flesh and suffered to show us the way back to God with the hope of saving as many he could, all would believe in him. And I'll be forever grateful because he's saved me from hell.
I wouldn't believe any teaching that told me it ok to sin and that God doesn't see the sins I'm committing because Jesus died on the cross, or that all our future sins are forgiven. Especially when we say a daily prayer asking God for forgiveness of our sins. So we need to be forgiven daily.
When we repented, our past sins were forgiven. God doesn't want us to sin Satan does. So any denomination that teaches that sinning is ok IMO is wrong.
marhig
Well-known member
And I'm sure you would be as Saul was, holding the stoners coats, or maybe even joining in? Who knows, but hopefully if you were really in that situation it would turn your stomach, because as Jesus said, those without sin, cast the first stone. Would you be able to cast the first stone?
I'm glad Jesus didn't think like you, he had mercy for the guilty too! He came to save sinners like me. Jesus showed us how to love everyone and show forgiveness even for those who are against us. He brings a love that guides you to do things that you would never do if we didn't belong him. He's changed my heart, I hope one day you'll see him and he changes yours from one wanting to stone others to one wanting to help and care for others, even care for those who are guilty.
Being cruel to anyone is putting death to the spirit of God within our hearts.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
Genesis 1:26; "Let us make man" If anybody finds in a text the word "us", would any normal person assume that it refers to one person with a multi-personality disorder? Of course not.
But why then, when Christians see the word "us" in the Bible, do they think that?
Gen 1:26 is used as a 'proof' that there is more than one God, or one God who is not one, eventhough the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one God who is one. and despite the fact that there are several other valid explanations for the plural word "us". One explanation is that it is a majestic plural as used by kings. Another possible explanation is that God was talking to the angels.
Some Christians try to refute the last argument by saying that the angels didn't create. They point to Genesis 1:1; "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." They say: 'God was the creator, and not the angels.' However, it is a given in Jewish law that an emissary is equal to the one who sends him. When a Jewish man marries a woman through an agent, the legal effect is the same as when he marries her personally. A good Biblical example of this is to be found in Genesis 19 where is spoken about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. God sent two angels to destroy the cities, the angels said to Lot in verse 13: "For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the LORD, and the LORD has sent us to destroy it." Upon this Lot says to his sons in law: "Up, get out of this place; for the LORD is about to destroy the city." Lot didn't say: "The angels are going to destroy the city" He said: "The LORD (Y-H-W-H in the Hebrew text) is going to destroy the city". And in verse 29 it is written: "So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley...." So the angels were send by God to destroy the cities, but God is considered to be the one who did it, because He was the one who sent them. So why shouldn't the same hold true for the creation?
But one way or the other, no plural created man. Look in Genesis 5:1; "When God created man ..." In Hebrew this is: "bara Elohiem adam" Here the verb "to create", in Hebrew "bara", is in the singular, indicating clearly that Elohiem who created man is one. The same goes for the very first verse of the Bible: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The word created is here written in the singular; it says "bara". If God was a plural, it should have been "baru".
BUT, back to the pronouns, Y-H-W-H says the following:
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
It says "I" am Y-H-W-H. And, as we all know, "I" is singular, and not plural, and therefore no three persons in Y-H-W-H. Otherwise He would have said: "WE are Y-H-W-H."
But no such thing, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H".
No trinity.
Another example of a pronoun:
Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”
As we see, it says that YOU, in the Hebrew singular, not plural are Y-H-W-H.
Again, no YOU, plural, are Y-H-W-H, but YOU singular, are Y-H-W-H.
So no three persons in God.
Another one:
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
Clear what? It doesn't say: “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: WE are the first and WE are the last; apart from US there is no God.”
No such a thing, it is all SINGULAR.
Another one:
Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”
Again, God says: "I am Y-H-W-H", and not "WE are Y-H-W-H" Such a thing simply doesn't exist.
I can go on and on with this, but these examples suffice. There is NO plurality in God.
And the word "us" when God speaks to the angels, does not imply otherwise.
"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19
I thought about this recently, how Paul didn't actively kill anybody, but he was certainly there, watching others kill. He watched as others killed. He watched as others killed a Christian, a member of the Body of Christ. He watched as others killed a member of the Church. Acts 7:58 KJV
Later on, he describes himself: 1st Timothy 1:15 KJV (Acts 22:20 KJV)
God chose a strong, long suffering, intelligent, faithful and incredibly stubborn people to pave the way for the reception of his Son by the world and in a place that would best serve to send out his gospel message to the 4 corners of the earth.
The Jews did serve that purpose.
The Jews did serve that purpose.
Indeed, and I believe that their continued prominence on earth, especially for so few, is a constant reminder of, and a perpetual testimony to the truth of the historic Christian faith.
lifeisgood
New member
So let's see, Elia is punished FOR the transgression of MY people Elia and Elia is the Suffering Servant? How foolish don't you think? Rhetorical question.
How sad that you reject your Suffering Servant. May He have mercy on you and yours and help you see Him and what He did for you and yours and save you; otherwise, you will never be able to see Y-H-W-H.
Ben Masada
New member
But the world did not deserve the effort applied by the love of God. The Midrash goes thus: "God so loved the world that, to teach man what love is, He became a Jew. Big mistake because they are still killing Him as an evidence that they are not ready to learn what love is."
beameup
New member
bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla
The truth is that ancient Hebrews had a "Two Powers in Heaven" theology, so multiple personages in the Heavenly realm was well accepted.
But 70AD changed everything, as "Judaism" essentially ceased to exist. So why is "Judaism" still around? Well, the sages and pharisees want to "hang onto their jobs", so over many decades created a new religion based on the precepts of man.. the (holy) Talmud. You are now "off the hook" as all you have to do is put your total trust in and your eternity in "the precepts of men" Talmud and your (holy) gurus, the "Rabbis". These "enlightened ones" who wrote the Talmud will guide you to your "eternal destination".
keypurr
Well-known member
What he said really was "My master and my Elohim" as translated in the Aramaic to English translation.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
There are many gods but only one true God;
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
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Messiah must be formed IN YOU, (according to Paul), and therefore, yes, you must become the suffering servant to truly become "grafted in" to the all Yisrael and olive tree of Elohim Most High. For the same reason Paul likely states that he bears the stigmata of the Master Yeshua in his own body, (Galatians 6:17), and was filling up in his own body what was lacking in the sufferings of Messiah for the sake of his body, (Colossians 1:24). Such things must apply to the whole because, if not, then your only alternative is to make Paul likewise into a demigod so that you yourself need not undergo the same immersion as did Paul and Yeshua, (which is indeed what has now happened with the majority of mainstream Christianity).
The same can be said of those who first began to teach the Trinity doctrine: those are your demigods, O ye little "g" gods, and they are the most favored and blessed teachers of the doctrines of men for the masses and the mass. Oh so beloved are the church fathers to the masses in the broad road: when all else fails quote the church fathers and their most beloved triune dogmata that cannot be proven but better not be denied or your eternal soul is in jeopardy! Oh the beloved dead! Just follow them and you too will be off the hook! (and dead). :dead:
Hi Keypurr, :thumb:
marhig
Well-known member
Messiah must be formed IN YOU, (according to Paul), and therefore, yes, you must become the suffering servant to truly become "grafted in" to the all Yisrael and olive tree of Elohim Most High. For the same reason Paul likely states that he bears the stigmata of the Master Yeshua in his own body, (Galatians 6:17), and was filling up in his own body what was lacking in the sufferings of Messiah for the sake of his body, (Colossians 1:24). Such things must apply to the whole because, if not, then your only alternative is to make Paul likewise into a demigod so that you yourself need not undergo the same immersion as did Paul and Yeshua, (which is indeed what has now happened with the majority of mainstream Christianity).
The same can be said of those who first began to teach the Trinity doctrine: those are your demigods, O ye little "g" gods, and they are the most favored and blessed teachers of the doctrines of men for the masses and the mass. Oh so beloved are the church fathers to the masses in the broad road: when all else fails quote the church fathers and their most beloved triune dogmata that cannot be proven but better not be denied or your eternal soul is in jeopardy! Oh the beloved dead! Just follow them and you too will be off the hook! (and dead). :dead:
Hi Keypurr, :thumb:
Yes, we should be doers of the word and not hearers only, and if Christ is truly in the heart, we will do so because we will lay down our lives in the flesh to bring the love of God to others and we will also suffer
1 Peter 4
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin
1 John 2
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.*But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.*He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
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marhig
Well-known member
Yes he did all that, but he repented when he knew Christ. And turned away from the sins he had been committing, becoming a strong man of God and he truly regretted what he had done, calling himself the chief of sinners (as you have shown in the verse you posted above)
1 Timothy 1
And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;*Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did*it*ignorantly in unbelief
It's what we do after we know the living God and belong to Christ, our past sins are forgiven when we truly repent, but after that, do we still live to please our flesh? or do we do as Paul did and and obey God, deny our flesh and lay down our lives to do his will?
God knows when we've heard the truth, it's then up to us to choose whether to obey it or not, as Joshua said, choose you this day who you serve.
beameup
New member
yet more dakk bla, bla, bla, bla, bla :kookoo:
Gee, I hate to disappoint you, but Jesus is in Heaven, seated at the right-hand of Almighty God the Father. It was the Holy Spirit that was sent in Acts 2.