ISRAEL IS THE FOCAL POINT OF THE BELIEVERS

Epoisses

New member
I'm sure you consider the Apostle John "wacky" for writing Revelation.
I have never had a productive dialogue with a dispensational proponent because they are brainwashed to believe there are two peoples with two gospels and two plans. Funny when I read Romans chap 1 it says - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom. 1:16,17

Only one gospel for two peoples!
 

northwye

New member
What does the New Testament say about temples?

Acts 7: 48 "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,"

I Corinthians 3: 16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

I Corinthians 6: 19 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 says in the Tyndale New Testament "Let no man deceive you by any means for the Lord commeth not except there come a departing first and that sinful man be opened ye son of perdition which is an adversary and is exalted above all that is called God or that is worshiped: so that he shall sit as God in temple of God and show himself as God."

One reason for using the Tyndale English translation of 1526 is that Tyndale begins II Thessalonians 2: 4 by saying "which is an adversary," but the King James Version says "who opposeth." "Who" points to a man, while "which" can point to a spirit, philosophy or doctrine.

Departing is from apostasia, apostasy.

The King James Version has falling away for apostasia. Those who follow a literal way of interpreting scripture insist that the falling away does not happen until the man of sin appears, who has to be a literal individual flesh and blood man, probably the dispensationalist one man anti-Christ. But the literalists also insist that the individual man of sin, their anti-Christ is to sit in a rebuilt temple of God in Jerusalem.

Because Stephen in Acts 7: 48 says God does not live in temples built by human hands, and Paul teaches in I Corinthians 3: 16 and 6: 19 that the believer is the temple of God, Paul is using metaphor in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4. He is not talking about a literal temple of God in the New Covenant period. What is the temple of God in the New Covenant time? It is the believer. The man of sin is from anthropos tes amartias where anthropos can mean an individual human or man as a species.

For some reason Paul is vague about this man of sin. Of course, the literalists insist it is one man, their anti-Christ. But since Paul is using the temple of God as a metaphor, he could be using man of sin in a metaphoric way also, that is, it is not a literal man. Just as the anti-Christ is a spirit of Anti-Christ, so the man of sin is a spirit which those who become apostate follow.
 
Last edited:

Ben Masada

New member
Yes, YHWH specifically sent Gabriel the Archangel to deliver a very special prophetical message that after 490 years following the edict/decree/proclamation allowing the Jews to leave Babylon and return to rebuild Jerusalem, we will have "everlasting righteousness".

Isn't "everlasting righteousness" wonderful? Isn't it amazing what "messiah #1" and "messiah #2" accomplished by the "common era". :rotfl:

Messiah #1 aka Messiah ben Joseph was Israel the Ten Tribes. Messiah #2 aka Messiah ben David was Judah. (Psalm 78:67-70) Messiah ben Joseph was the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 as it got lost in an Assyrian exile to never return as a People. Messiah ben David IS Judah, the only Remnant that returned as a People from his later exile in Babylon. (Isaiah 10:21:22)
 

beameup

New member
Messiah #1 aka Messiah ben Joseph was Israel the Ten Tribes. Messiah #2 aka Messiah ben David was Judah. (Psalm 78:67-70) Messiah ben Joseph was the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 as it got lost in an Assyrian exile to never return as a People. Messiah ben David IS Judah, the only Remnant that returned as a People from his later exile in Babylon. (Isaiah 10:21:22)

So, what you are saying is their never was and never will be a "Messiah" to save Israel and heal the world. How very sad. Why does Judaism even continue to exist?
You can be a "Jew" and be an atheist, a homosexual, non-observant to the commandments, a communist - and still be accepted among the "beloved" Jews. This speaks volumes about your so-called "god".
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
A third of scripture is prophecy.

Y'all are too lazy to study because it's just too hard for you. Reformers.

You can't even answer an honest question objectively.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
A third of scripture is prophecy.

Y'all are too lazy to study because it's just too hard for you. Reformers.

You can't even answer an honest question objectively.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

When you can exhibit some hint that you have studied and understood Greek anarthrous and articular nouns (and in all their cases, voices, and persons), then and only then should ever speak again. That would likely mean a two-decade vow of silence from you, which isn't going to happen.

Clueless, you are. Much need of not being lazy, you have.
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
When you can exhibit some hint that you have studied and understood Greek anarthrous and articular nouns (and in all their cases, voices, and persons), then and only then should ever speak again. That would likely mean a two-decade vow of silence from you, which isn't going to happen.

Clueless, you are. Much need of not being lazy, you have.

Pmeuma Eunuch


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
Bs"d

When the real messiah comes.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!”

Joshua 24:14-15

It is impossible for any new Messiah...the lineage of David is no more
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
The 15th century Puritans believed in the restoration of Israel, Matthew Henry, Spurgeon a true son of the early [as opposed to the 16-17th century] Puritans often preached the glorious future of Israel.

Luther and Calvin are unfortunate, they have the dregs of Catholicism about them still in some of their teachings....however thankful we are for the light they brought.

But Henry 600 years ago or Spurgeon or even Darby 200 years ago could not possibly have foreseen that in this our day there is a nation of Israel.

Christians have their bible, the teaching of Paul concerning Israel's reconciliation but they also have eyes to see if'n they ever wanted to.
 

northwye

New member
At the time of Acts 15 James was not in full agreement with Paul, and retained some doctrines and rituals of the Old Covenant. But - in Acts 15: 14-17 James said "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. 15. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 16. After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17. That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

James is quoting Amos 9: 11-12, "In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
12. That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this."

But James says "And to this agree the words of the prophets," not just Amos. James says prophets, more than one prophet. There are several other Old Testament prophecies on the restoration of Israel, and the Christian Zionists insist these all are about the restoration of Old Covenant Israel - in a new future time when God will return to a dispensation of law and make Israel defined by the literal, physical bloodline his chosen.

Hosea 3: 5: "Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days."

Isaiah 54: 1-3: "Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD. 2. Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3. For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.”

The Old Testament prophecies on the restoration of Israel are interpreted in the New Covenant period to be about the transformation of Israel in Jesus Christ. Old Covenant Israel was remade (Jeremiah 18: 4) and translated into that spiritual house seen in I Peter 2: 5. The peculiar treasure, the kingdom of priests, and the holy nation of Old Covenant Israel of Exodus 19: 3-8 was translated into "ye" in I Peter 2: 9, "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

"To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beer-sheba." II Samuel 3: 10

"Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" Colossians 1: 13
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Yes I do and both mentions of a future temple by Paul and Jesus speak of a man of sin and an abomination of desolation. Please tell me how Israel is the hero of the last days when everything that happens there is evil?

Read the Old Testament


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
@ N'wye 353

Both the Jerusalem crowd were right and Paul was right. Scripture doctrine is never in contradiction.

When you read Paul's description of the second coming there is no mention of loud bangs or fervent heat to the melting away of the elements, the dead in Christ rise first then we who are alive an remain are caught up together with them in the clouds, so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In 1 Corinthians 15 we will not all die but we will be changed in a twink of an eye, what is mortal will put on immortality.

,,,but every man in his order

Christ the firstfruits, afterward they that are Christ's at His coming....but there is a 2,000 year gap here in that little sentence

....then cometh the end

When He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father, when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power

For He must reign till He hath put all things under His feet.

You saw the gap between the resurrection of Christ the firstfruits and the resurrection of those who are His at His coming, 2,000 years....there is another gap between this coming and and "then cometh the end" a 1,000 year gap during which He will put all things under His feet.

After that thousand years will come the loud bangs etc so both parties are right in their time.

See the Jerusalem crowd had no understanding of the church among the nations, they supposed the world would come to them as the prophets said. Paul understood the church among the nations.

And just as Israel has to be gathered to protect them from God's wrath so the church has to be gathered...only Paul understood the Rapture.

Paul in Romans speaking about the liberty to come at the revelation of the sons of God speaks about the creation being SET FREE from it's bondage to decay....that is what the 1,000 years is.
 

Epoisses

New member
Read the Old Testament


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Read the New Testament and you might discover you've been duped. When your rapture bus blows an engine and you are stuck in the tribulation with everyone else your faith will be shattered and you will become easy pickins' for the beast and his image.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Total inability to rightly divide the word of truth. Not my problem.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Oh, but it IS your problem. You've just shuffled it off onto others in false self-assurance of your autonomy being right.

"Rightly divide" the Word and tell us all about Greek noun constructs and their explicit translation into English. If you can't, you have NO clue about ANY kind of dividing, much less rightly dividing.

In fact, tell us the exact lexical definition for "rightly dividing", smug poser.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Read the New Testament and you might discover you've been duped. When your rapture bus blows an engine and you are stuck in the tribulation with everyone else your faith will be shattered and you will become easy pickins' for the beast and his image.

Ah. You're not a Dispensationalist, but a Classical Premillennial Futurist. Didn't realize that until just now. :)
 
Top