Isn't that self explanatory? Read it yourself and you tell me? Jesus
said Himself, He came for the Lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto
the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Is the doctrine of predestination in conflict with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Isn't that self explanatory? Read it yourself and you tell me? Jesus
said Himself, He came for the Lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto
the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
nikolai_42
Well-known member
So does the verse say He came to the sheep and the sheep were unwilling?
The call was strong, but I do believe that I could have resisted as I had done before.
I am not one of God's robots or puppets.
Scripture please?
The House of Israel were God's "Chosen People."
nikolai_42
Well-known member
The verses I quoted and ones like no man can come to me unless the Father draws Him and no man can receive anything unless it is given to him from heaven etc... these all speak of God's choice in salvation. If you are saying that they are to Israel (whom God calls "mine elect" and Paul says that all Israel will be saved), then it seems to me you must believe that all those Israelites that the Father gave Jesus came to Him and Jesus will raise them up on the last day.
God chose the nation of Israel, prophets, apostles for the sole purpose of bringing forth the savior of the world so that... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord could be saved" Romans 10:13.
Amen to that.
I'm not gonna play games with you. Try those on somebody else.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
And the Lord knoweth them that are His. Jesus spoke of His sheep. The scripture speaks of sheep and goats - the nature of these men - not the choices of these men.
Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
I receive not honour from men.
But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
John 5:33-42
This whole speech of Jesus was predicated on the unbelieving Jews...the Pharisees...the religious leaders not having a precondition. In other words, He knew they didn't have what they needed to come to Him and so they just wouldn't. He said as much. This wasn't Jesus saying "You just won't choose me" it was Him saying "You don't have it in you to come to me. You can't. It's impossible.". They would never choose Christ because of their nature. That nature determined who they were before God and God chose not to change it.Thus, they perished (unless they were changed).
As I told you, I'll not play your games. Try somebody else who
likes playing games. I don't even like computer games.
Amen
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Um...what games? All I'm asking you to do is read the verse as it is written. You have said one thing, but the verse itself doesn't quite say that, does it?
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 23:37
Jesus distinguishes between Jerusalem and her children.
Yep. I believe that during the coarse of "every bodies" life, the
Holy Spirit draws all of us. God says He doesn't want anyone
to perish. Many will resist/reject this calling.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
All I did was take the verses and your statement and try and put them together. You said they were only to Israel. So is Israel elect? Are those in Israel who are saved elected by God for that?
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Is Jerusalem an entity?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
You and I will never have a meeting of the minds. You come from
a Calvinist view whereas, I do not. We will interpret Scripture
accordingly. Your interpretation will always have a Calvinist slant.
Calvinism is your belief system and you're comfortable with it.
Everybody chooses what they want to place their faith in. You're
not gonna be persuaded by me and I will not be persuaded by you.
We'll just agree to disagree. How's that?
Is the United States and entity?
God chose the whole human race in Jesus Christ and then reconciled it to himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.