I trust in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of my sins. The bible says "blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven". However the wages of sin is still death for those who reject Christ's sacrifice.
Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?
- Thread starter Timotheos
- Start date
I trust in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of my sins. The bible says "blessed is the man whose sins are forgiven". However the wages of sin is still death for those who reject Christ's sacrifice.
The verse you posted didn't say what you said it said.
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures I gave do say what I said they said.
John 3:16?
timmy's still at it eh?
bless his precious little heart :thumb:
bless his precious little heart :thumb:
God's Truth
New member
That scripture says God so loved the world.
God love 'us' is in general.
God does not even know you unless you love Him, and we love God by obeying.
1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God.
1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
what is essential.....
what is essential.....
But you insist that God will roast his children forever and ever to no end. This is insanity, let alone a blight against the good, wise and merciful nature of 'God'.
The NJKV does just fine, an improvement of the KJV in various ways. We might also note that the KJV is NOT the most accurate translation that exists, so I beg to differ with the 'KJV-only' folks.
I believe we've already covered that the greek word 'aion' refers to an 'age' or indefinite period of time, and does not necessarily mean a never ending duration of time. Hence the term 'forever and ever' in the English language does not approximate the true meaning of the original language.
Honest Questions and Answers about 'Hell'
All comes under the ultimacy and government of God's eternal justice and mercy, mediated by his eternal love and wisdom. Can anyone fathom his infinite love? Who can measure it?
But note that according to the law of compensation (karma)...each will only suffer the penalty for his own sins, not more or less severe, and will owe the debt that is commensurate to the crime committed, having to 'do time' only in proportion to that sin, for such is the law in its perfect fairness, measure for measure. Again we call this 'karmic inter-action'...the 'law of compensation'; 'law of justice', 'cause/effect', 'law of self-responsibility', etc. - it all refers back to 'action' which is what 'karma' means, and its accompanying effects.
'Fire' is also a metaphor or symbol for the purifying flame of God's holy presence, which incinerates or transforms all that is not of God into only pure God-substance, where all the dross is burned away, leaving on the pure gold of divinity, or divine potential of the soul intact. Does he not baptize us in the holy spirit and fire? - such is a regenerating/revitalizing/purifying flame!
Yes, the light of truth and justice blazes on forever.
Aumen. The law is love itself, the fundamental principle behind all relations. It is primary (first principle), while all else is secondary (relative).
"Love God and your brother as you love and value yourself". - "Do this and you will live (have eternal life, by satisfying the law).
To 'see' and 'hear' is everything. A pure heart is indispensable with a receptive spirit. - this is why only the pure in heart see 'God'. Purity enables true 'seeing', and it arises from the essence of pure 'being'.
pj
what is essential.....
But you insist that God will roast his children forever and ever to no end. This is insanity, let alone a blight against the good, wise and merciful nature of 'God'.
The NJKV does just fine, an improvement of the KJV in various ways. We might also note that the KJV is NOT the most accurate translation that exists, so I beg to differ with the 'KJV-only' folks.
I believe we've already covered that the greek word 'aion' refers to an 'age' or indefinite period of time, and does not necessarily mean a never ending duration of time. Hence the term 'forever and ever' in the English language does not approximate the true meaning of the original language.
Honest Questions and Answers about 'Hell'
All comes under the ultimacy and government of God's eternal justice and mercy, mediated by his eternal love and wisdom. Can anyone fathom his infinite love? Who can measure it?
But note that according to the law of compensation (karma)...each will only suffer the penalty for his own sins, not more or less severe, and will owe the debt that is commensurate to the crime committed, having to 'do time' only in proportion to that sin, for such is the law in its perfect fairness, measure for measure. Again we call this 'karmic inter-action'...the 'law of compensation'; 'law of justice', 'cause/effect', 'law of self-responsibility', etc. - it all refers back to 'action' which is what 'karma' means, and its accompanying effects.
'Fire' is also a metaphor or symbol for the purifying flame of God's holy presence, which incinerates or transforms all that is not of God into only pure God-substance, where all the dross is burned away, leaving on the pure gold of divinity, or divine potential of the soul intact. Does he not baptize us in the holy spirit and fire? - such is a regenerating/revitalizing/purifying flame!
Yes, the light of truth and justice blazes on forever.
Aumen. The law is love itself, the fundamental principle behind all relations. It is primary (first principle), while all else is secondary (relative).
"Love God and your brother as you love and value yourself". - "Do this and you will live (have eternal life, by satisfying the law).
To 'see' and 'hear' is everything. A pure heart is indispensable with a receptive spirit. - this is why only the pure in heart see 'God'. Purity enables true 'seeing', and it arises from the essence of pure 'being'.
pj
Dear freelight,
I didn't say God will roast most of His children in the lake of fire. Only those whom He chooses, which happens to be Lucifer, Satan, the beast/antichrist, the false prophet, and the 666 who listened to the antichrist and received the mark of the beast, and certain others. If God wants to do it, like He says, it shall be. Why should the grievous sinners receive the same reward as the righteous. It makes no sense whatsoever. What are you so afraid of? I don't believe in karma as much as I believe in reconciliation for sins.
You seem to want to change the meanings of words to suit yourself. All I've done was quote the KJV scriptures. I'm aware that others books use different words, but God and Jesus use the word evil in the KJV and that's the Bible I go by. God will set us straight when we meet Him. He will tell me I'm wrong or you you're wrong.
I'm not going to keep arguing back and forth with you about things I've already explained myself on. If you don't like His ECT, then pray to Him about it. Not me. He created evil or calamities, or whatever you want to call it, but He created mortal evil also, because the devil surely didn't create it. God created everything. I don't want you to keep rehashing things we've already spoken about and I've explained my position on. I also don't want to post on this thread. It's too long and slow.
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Ben Masada
New member
I believe the NT is wrong because death is not the wage of sin but of having been born. Many babies die without having ever had time to sin.
And for eternal life, that's a gift God never granted to man. On the contrary, man was banished out of the Garden of Eden in order not to eat of the tree of life and live forever. (Gen. 3:22) And the evidence that eternal life does not come as a result of believing in Jesus is the fact that we all die, believers or not. Even Jesus himself died.
If the soul who sins shall die it means that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jeremiah 31:30) Therefore, Jesus did not die for our sins.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Each child is born to sinners... therefore: they are subject to death.
He submitted Himself to death, even though He never sinned. Because of that mis-carriage of justice, He is able to swap His Life for our death.
Jesus died, and it was our sins that caused His death.
That's morally contemptible. If you support such a concept, you need some help.
God's Truth
New member
We do not live in our flesh forever because Adam sinned. That is why we die. We are all sinners. If you have been born and die before you sin, it does not mean there was a chance for you to live and never sin.
God's Truth
New member
Jeremiah 31:30 is about earthly things. Jesus dying for our sins is about Spiritual things.
Jesus is God come in the flesh.
The old law was about earthy man. The new law is about spiritual man.
The old law said to be circumcised in the flesh, as a sign of faith. This is a teaching, a shadow, of what was coming, Jesus Christ. We are circumcised in the heart with the Holy Spirit as our sign of faith.
The old law said to observe special days. All those special days are about Jesus. Jesus came and we worship and observe him, not days.
The old law said to adhere to the dietary laws. The dietary laws are about a people being separate unto to God. Through Jesus all can come to God, and we are to separate ourselves from the ways of this world.
The old law said to do various external washings, just to worship God, just to be able to come to the temple. This is a teaching tool, a shadow of what was coming, for faith in Jesus’ blood cleanses us, and we are the temple of the living God.
The old law said to sacrifice animals, it was a teaching tool, it is a shadow of Jesus Christ, for Jesus is our Lamb of God.
Through Jesus, the punishment laws are no more, for we have mercy and forgiveness through Jesus Christ.
Jesus fulfilled the prophets’ means all the prophets prophesied about Jesus, and everything they said about him, he fulfilled.
If we're all sinners yet we can get to heaven anyway - why be good? Just rape and murder until you're old and then apologise.
Luke and Matthew both tell us the law was until John. With John came the introduction and the preachng of the kingdom of God, which is not based on Mosaic law. Therefore Jeremiah's statement is not applicable to John, Jesus, and no one else including you. But you need not be concerned about dying for someone else, that has been taken care of for you.
Ben, if you are ever going to learn anything about the NT you need to learn this.
I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. (Isaiah 45:23)
For it is written, "As I live, says the LORD, every knee shall bow to Me and every tongue shall confess to God." (Romans 14:11)
For it is written, "As I live, says the LORD, every knee shall bow to Me and every tongue shall confess to God." (Romans 14:11)
As you can see Isaiah says there will be a resurrection and Paul says that Jesus Christ is the God of the OT.
A day is coming when you will bow to Jesus Christ, it is inevitable, it is prophesied, it will be. Why not start today ackowledging that Jesus is the Christ?
God's Truth
New member
We are to believe in Jesus, have faith in what his blood does for us. We are to confess our sins, and repent of them; repenting of sins means to be sorry for them and to stop doing them. We also then live our new lives obeying Jesus. We have the Holy Spirit to comfort us, to fill our hearts with God's love.
These are no small things. Just think of the condition of the heart that does not want to be humble and submit to God. Think of the condition of anyone's heart that humbles itself and submits to God. It is as different as darkness and light.
And the rest of John 3:16?
Aimiel
Well-known member
Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Ive told you before its not about being 'good' its about receiving His will and trusting in Him/ His ways, one who received His will for their life isnt going to be raping and murdering.
Tell me also how you know when you will die, to have time to later "apologize" and why you think God would not know the difference between between a sincere repentant heart and one that wasnt?