Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Timotheos]

Dear Timotheos,

That printed out twice (my last post). I can delete it if you like. Just let me know. Now for ECT. See Rev. 20:12, 'And I saw the dead, small and great...and death and hell (and the sea) and they were delivered up, and they were judged according to their works (faith and love included). And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.' See the actual verses in the KJV Bible. The New KJV isn't worth the paper it's printed on, IMO. Yes, even those who die are in danger of the lake of fire, so there is ECT.

Also, you will notice in Luke 16:24, "and he cried, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he might dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue ; for I am tormented in this flame." See the verse. It also means that ECT is real. If you think you're going to sin your butt of and get off with just dying an earthly death, you are very wrong. It's tricky, but you've got to think about it.

God Keep You From The Evil One,

MichaelC

Luke 16:24 doesn't say that the torment is eternal, therefore it doesn't prove that ECT is real. The parable is not talking about the final punishment. If you think that death is "getting off" free, you are mistaken. BTW, I don't think that I can "sin my butt of and get off with dying an earthly death". The two possibilities, according to the Bible are "eternal life" or "death".

 

[Timotheos]

Dear bybee,

That is only for the body or carcass. It does not apply to the soul/spirit within that person. Thanks, hon!!

Michael, according to the Bible, the soul of the wicked dies.
Read Ezekiel 18:4 "The soul who sins shall die", and Matthew 10:28 "Fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna".

 

[rstrats]

Timotheos,

re: "Read Ezekiel 18:4 'The soul who sins shall die', and Matthew 10:28 'Fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna'."

And as for the spirit, Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that it "will return to God who gave it".

 

[bybee]

Michael, according to the Bible, the soul of the wicked dies.
Read Ezekiel 18:4 "The soul who sins shall die", and Matthew 10:28 "Fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna".

I'm curious about people who want to believe that God is an eternally vengeful entity?

 

[God's Truth]

Thank you. Now do you think these passages mean that the girl and Lazarus were not really dead? I believe that the girl and Lazarus were really dead and Jesus Christ, being fully God and having all of the power over life and death, was able to return them to life.

They were dead physically, which disproves your saying dead is dead and not alive.

None of the passages you gave actually said "Dead people aren't really dead, they are alive".

The passages tell us that the dead are not dead they are asleep.

If the girl was merely asleep, why couldn't anyone except Jesus wake her up? The answer is that they couldn't raise the dead, only God can raise the dead. She was not merely asleep, she was literally dead.

You are fighting against what Jesus says. Again, you are the one who kept saying dead was dead. Now you are shown scripture that says dead is asleep.

Jesus said she was asleep in order to make a point to them.

Which proves you wrong when you say dead is dead. If dead were dead without any other meaning, then Jesus would not say she was sleeping.

It is as easy for God to return life to the dead as it is for anyone else to wake up a sleeping person.

The scripture says HER SPIRIT RETURNED TO HER. This proves the spirit cannot die and lives on after the death of the body.



Luke 8:55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat.

 

[Timotheos]

They were dead physically, which disproves your saying dead is dead and not alive.

They were dead which disproves that they were dead????

 

[Timotheos]

Oops, double post

 

[God's Truth]

They were dead which disproves that they were dead????

Jesus says they are asleep. However, you say dead is dead and that word dead is used because they are not alive.

You are shown to be in error. If there were not more to a dead person then Jesus would not say they were sleeping.

I have already proven to you with scripture that the spirit does not die.

 

[Timotheos]

Jesus says they are asleep. However, you say dead is dead and that word dead is used because they are not alive.

You are shown to be in error. If there were not more to a dead person then Jesus would not say they were sleeping.

I have already proven to you with scripture that the spirit does not die.

"Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,"
John 11:14

 

[Timotheos]

I just believe what the Bible says.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The wicked shall perish, the wicked shall be no more.
All who believe in him shall not perish but will have eternal life.
The way is wide that leads to destruction, the way is narrow that leads to life.
The soul who sins shall die, but when a wicked person turns away from his sins, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

[Timotheos]

I just believe what the Bible says.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The wicked shall perish, the wicked shall be no more.
All who believe in him shall not perish but will have eternal life.
The way is wide that leads to destruction, the way is narrow that leads to life.
The soul who sins shall die, but when a wicked person turns away from his sins, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

[God's Truth]

"Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,"
John 11:14

What don't you get about Jesus also said he was sleeping? You are the one who said the word dead was used for a reason. However, I have shown you that another word was also used.

 

[God's Truth]

I just believe what the Bible says.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The wicked shall perish, the wicked shall be no more.
All who believe in him shall not perish but will have eternal life.
The way is wide that leads to destruction, the way is narrow that leads to life.
The soul who sins shall die, but when a wicked person turns away from his sins, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

If you believed all that the Bible says then you would believe that the spirit does not die, and that we live on after the death of our bodies.

 

[not4sure]

I am starting to believe in the doctrine of the torment of an endless thread. Hell will play a tape of these threads in an endless loop.

 

[Timotheos]

If you believed all that the Bible says then you would believe that the spirit does not die, and that we live on after the death of our bodies.

No, I just believe what the Bible says. The Bible says that the soul who sins shall die. Didn't you see all of the verses that I posted which said exactly what I believe?

 

[Timotheos]

I am starting to believe in the doctrine of the torment of an endless thread. Hell will play a tape of these threads in an endless loop.

I don't know.

I just believe what the Bible says. The Bible doesn't say that Hell will play an endless loop of these threads. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. The soul who sins shall die.

 

[God's Truth]

No, I just believe what the Bible says. The Bible says that the soul who sins shall die. Didn't you see all of the verses that I posted which said exactly what I believe?

You are not God. Why should I be checking what you believe?

I thought you made this thread to discuss what the scriptures say.

 

[Timotheos]

You are not God. Why should I be checking what you believe?

I thought you made this thread to discuss what the scriptures say.

I agree that I am not God, but where did you get the idea that I think that I am God? Here is what I said. As you can plainly see (I hope) I never claimed to be God:

No, I just believe what the Bible says. The Bible says that the soul who sins shall die. Didn't you see all of the verses that I posted which said exactly what I believe?

The Bible said it first, then I believed it, then I posted it here in defense of my beliefs.

Here, I will post again:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Psalm 37:20
The wicked shall perish,

Psalm 37:10
the wicked shall be no more.

John 3:16
All who believe in him shall not perish but will have eternal life.

Matthew 7:13
The way is wide that leads to destruction, the way is narrow that leads to life.

Ezekiel 18:4, Ezekiel 18:21
The soul who sins shall die, but when a wicked person turns away from his sins, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

I am not God, I am quoting God's word. It doesn't matter to me if you don't care. You don't have to check what I believe if you don't want to. God's Word matters to me. Your words don't matter as much, no offense. You are not God.

 

[God's Truth]

I agree that I am not God, but where did you get the idea that I think that I am God? Here is what I said. As you can plainly see (I hope) I never claimed to be God:
The Bible said it first, then I believed it, then I posted it here in defense of my beliefs.

Here, I will post again:
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Psalm 37:20
The wicked shall perish,

Psalm 37:10
the wicked shall be no more.

John 3:16
All who believe in him shall not perish but will have eternal life.

Matthew 7:13
The way is wide that leads to destruction, the way is narrow that leads to life.

Ezekiel 18:4, Ezekiel 18:21
The soul who sins shall die, but when a wicked person turns away from his sins, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

I am not God, I am quoting God's word. It doesn't matter to me if you don't care. You don't have to check what I believe if you don't want to. God's Word matters to me. Your words don't matter as much, no offense. You are not God.

You are the one who questioned whether I have read your beliefs.

The scriptures speak about LIFE TO OUR SPIRITS. The scriptures also say our spirits cannot die by the hands of men; and, that Jesus preached the gospel to the spirits of those who died long ago.

You said you believe what the Bible says. When I showed you other things the Bible says, you only wanted me to read what you believe.

You prove you do not only believe what the Bible teaches.

 

[not4sure]

I don't know.

I just believe what the Bible says. The Bible doesn't say that Hell will play an endless loop of these threads. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death. The soul who sins shall die.

have you ever sinned?