ECT Is "Original sin" Seen by Others as Intrinsic Potential or latent in Creation as Evil

[Jerry Shugart]

Made up. Genesis 5:3 KJV, in contrast to your talk show speculation.

Sorry, sonny boy, but what is said at Genesis 5:3 helps you in no way. As a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil Adam received a conscience. And after that all of Adam's posterity would be made in his likeness, also having a conscience.

And since Adam was created "very good" his descendants were also made in his image in that regard, as witnessed by what David said about the way that he was made:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

We also read this:

"This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:29).​

So its time for you to rant and rave in the hope that no one will notice that you do not believe what is written in these two passages.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Sorry, sonny boy, but what is said at Genesis 5:3 helps you in no way. As a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil Adam received a conscience. And after that all of Adam's posterity would be made in his likeness, also having a conscience.

And since Adam was created "very good" his descendants were also made in his image in that regard, as witnessed by what David said about the way that he was made:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

We also read this:

"This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:29).​

So its time for you to rant and rave in the hope that no one will notice that you do not believe what is written in these two passages.

"This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:29).

(Thanks for that)

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[john w]

Sorry, sonny boy, but what is said at Genesis 5:3 helps you in no way. As a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil Adam received a conscience. And after that all of Adam's posterity would be made in his likeness, also having a conscience.

And since Adam was created "very good" his descendants were also made in his image in that regard, as witnessed by what David said about the way that he was made:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

We also read this:

"This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:29).​

So its time for you to rant and rave in the hope that no one will notice that you do not believe what is written in these two passages.

Made up. Only Adam and Eve were made upright. You/us were created in fallen Adam/Eve's image and likeness, having their genes, and rebellious sin nature. Your laughable "An apple tree only becomes an apple tree when it produces apples" theory is refuted by scripture, as is your deletion of "by nature children of wrath," and "after its own kind" in Genesis, as is your laughable "children need not be trained in the way they should go, as they are, by nature, greedy, not selfish, not disobedient" theory, old man, and as is your theory that we are supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour, bypassing getting Adam's genes.


Why don't you believe the bible, geezer, and deny that you have your parents' genes??Why do you not believe the hundreds of verses, refuting your theory, and hope no one will notice you do not believe the bible, including Paul? We see that you have no answer, old man.

 

[john w]

Why do you continue to attack the messenger, and engage in assassination attempt!!!

We see that you have no answers, to my brilliance, slug, as you are stuck on milk, cannot bear the meat, I serve up, with your lack of paying attention to the details of the book, a book of details, as you run and hide to your Acts 2 "it all says the same thing" theory.

Why don't you study the scriptures? Why do you depend on others to do your study for you, as 85% of your "posts" are merely what "sir" Roberst Anderson, Paul Saddler, Chuck Ryrie, John Walvoord, Ironside......say, as you are just too lazy, and rely on other Acts 2 blenders?

We see that Jer is running and hiding back to his Acts 2 blender kids, having no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that he can't stand the heat, so he is staying out of the frying pan, and attacking the messengers, engaging in assassination attempst, against one of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, sir saint John W, as he cannot defend his nonsense, made up, ridiculous theory that we are all supernaturally conceived, by the Holy Spirit, identical to the Saviour in "sinlessness," that we are not born in the image and likeness of Adam, "post fall," having his genes, and that children need to be taught to be greedy/disobedient/selfish, and that we are not "by nature the children of wrath."

Why don't you believe the scriptures, Jerry? Why don't you believe God? Who should we believe, you, or Paul?Why do you believe what men say the scripture say,their laughable, ridiculous, nonsense theories, instead of the scriptures themselves?


We see, it is clear, obviously you have no answers, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that we are members of "The Adams Family," "post fall/Genesis 5:3 KJV," having his genes, with a sin nature.

Jer-did you notice my Why don't you believe the scriptures, Jerry? Why don't you believe God? Who should we believe, you, or Paul?Why do you believe what men say the scripture say,their laughable, ridiculous, nonsense theories, instead of the scriptures themselves?



We see that you cannot stand the heat, in the furnace, and are running and hiding, and have no answers. ifd ther


Why do put more faith in what some people like "sir" Robert Anderson, Ironside, Walvoord, Chuck Ryrie,...say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach?


Who should we believe? You, or Paul?


Who should we believe: You, or God?


There is no doubt, whatsoever, that Genesis-Revelation means nothing to you because you prove over and over that you do not actually believe the Scriptures.


We see, it is clear, there is no doubt whatsoever, that you are running and hiding, to your mommie, as you cannot stand the heat in the bedroom.

These questions just shut down everyone!!! Thanks, geezer!



There can be no doubt whatsoever, that once again Jer proves that he puts more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than he does in what the Scriptures actually teach.

And that explains why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I said , as you are running and hiding, with his ridiculous, silly theories, and ignores what the great mid Acts giant, sir Paul says here:

Romans-Philemon


Why don't you play like you are an adult and actually address what Paul said at Romans-Philemon, and why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I have said here:


www.theologyonline.com,and This also explains why you are assassinating the messengers, on TOL. Why do you not address what Paul said, and ignore him, and instead follow what men say, instead of the scriptures? And why should I believe you, instead of Paul?Once again, there can be no doubt, you clearly prove, we see that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach.

You defend a theory which claims that the Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary. All of TOL is still waiting you to actually address the verses which we did quote. Why will you not believe God? The verses we have quoted by themselves disprove the theory of man is born supernaturally via the Holy Spirit just like the Saviour, and the laughable theory that an apple tree becomes an apple tree, only after it produces apples, .and no one has yet been able to prove anything which I /we have said is in error. Jerry can go into his Bozo the clown act in the hope that no one will notice that he has no answer to the facts presented, ignores them, runs and hides, just like you had no answer to the fact that the LORD made Adam upright, “pre-fall,” but we get our daddy Adam’s genes “post fall,” per Genesis 5:3 KJV!

I see you have no answer as to why you assert that everyone is equal to the Saviour, when born, in "sinlessness," and why you assert that the virgin birth was uneccessary, and as to why you assert that Romans-Philemon says the same thing as Hebrews-Rev.

There is no doubt whatsoever, that you continue to ignore the truth that the Bible teaches that men are not sinless when born, identical to the Saviour, that the rapture is not the same as the second coming, that Paul was not just a flunkie, that children need not be taught to misbehave, be selfish, that Job was not a child, in the bible.


Why should we believe you, instead of Paul, blender boy?

You prove once again that you put more faith in what some people like Anderson, Ironside, Walvoord, say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach. The Scriptures reveal that we inherit our genes from Adam/Eve, and that The Holy Spirit was responsible for him being "immaculately conceived," not Joseph, as you assert, and that we are not born sinless, identical to him, like you assert, and thus need no salvation.


Who should we believe? You, or Paul?


Who should we believe: You, or God?


There is no doubt, whatsoever, that Genesis-Revelation means nothing to you because you prove over and over that you do not actually believe the Scriptures.

Don't you believe the bible? We see that you have no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that you do not believe God/Paul/the bible.



We see that Jer is running and hiding back to his Acts 2 blender kids, having no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that he can't stand the heat, so he is staying out of the bedroom, and attacking the messengers, engaging in assassination attempst, against one of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, sir saint John W.

Why don't you believe the bible, Jer, and deny that you have your parents' genes??Why do you not believe the hundreds of verses, refuting your theory, and hope no one will notice you do not believe the bible, including Paul? We see that you have no answer, old man. There can be no doubt whatsoever, that you'd rather believe man, than the bible. Why don't you believe the bible, and Paul? Who should we believe-Paul, or you?


That ought to clinch it.

Jer is about to tell us when he realized that he was producing apples, and thus was an apple tree, as he "started growing into the roll." Tell us, Jer-when did you realize that you sinned/produced apples, and thus became an apple tree/a sinner, and when did you have to be taught how to be disobedient/greedy/selfish? What age was that? Age 1/2? Age 1? Age 2? Age #?...............When you were a teenager, drinking, smoking cigs, chasing chicks? Unpack it for us?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Made up. Only Adam and Eve were made upright. You/us were created in fallen Adam/Eve's image and likeness, having their genes, and rebellious sin nature.

Sonny boy, I taught you better than that! I told you over and over again that you can't just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe. David understood that he had the genes of Adam and here is what he said about his own body:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

We also know that the Lord Jesus was made like us in all things:

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:16-17).​

If the author of the book of Hebrews believed that our bodies were somehow despoiled by Adam's sin then he certainly would never had stated that the Lord Jesus was made like us "in all things."

Now it is time for you to go into your old tired routine in the hope that no one will notice that you don't believe what David said about his body and what the author of Hebrews said about the way that the Lord Jesus was made when he put on a flesh and blood body.

 

[john w]

Sonny boy, I taught you better than that! I told you over and over again that you can't just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe. David understood that he had the genes of Adam and here is what he said about his own body:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

We also know that the Lord Jesus was made like us in all things:

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:16-17).​

If the author of the book of Hebrews believed that our bodies were somehow despoiled by Adam's sin then he certainly would never had stated that the Lord Jesus was made like us "in all things."

Now it is time for you to go into your old tired routine in the hope that no one will notice that you don't believe what David said about his body and what the author of Hebrews said about the way that the Lord Jesus was made when he put on a flesh and blood body.

Made up. Only Adam and Eve were made upright. You/us were created in fallen Adam/Eve's image and likeness, having their genes, and rebellious sin nature. Your laughable "An apple tree only becomes an apple tree when it produces apples" theory is refuted by scripture, as is your deletion of "by nature children of wrath," and "after its own kind" in Genesis, as is your laughable "children need not be trained in the way they should go, as they are, by nature, greedy, not selfish, not disobedient" theory, old man, and as is your theory that we are supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour, bypassing getting Adam's genes.


Why don't you believe the bible, geezer, and deny that you have your parents' genes??Why do you not believe the hundreds of verses, refuting your theory, and hope no one will notice you do not believe the bible, including Paul? We see that you have no answer, old man.

Now it is time for you to go into your kid stuff, spam what others say, not the bible, in the hope that no one will notice that you don't believe what Genesis-Revelation says about man having a sin nature, and David said about his body physically, not his sin nature, which he admits he had, and what the author of Hebrews said about the way that the Lord Jesus was made when he put on a flesh and blood body, but was sinless, unlike us, as we are after Adam's genes, not supernaturally born of the Holy Spirit, with no human father, as you state, and you're denial of "by nature children of wrath."


Why do you continue to attack the messenger, and engage in assassination attempt!!!

We see that you have no answers, to my brilliance, slug, as you are stuck on milk, cannot bear the meat, I serve up, with your lack of paying attention to the details of the book, a book of details, as you run and hide to your Acts 2 "it all says the same thing" theory.

Why don't you study the scriptures? Why do you depend on others to do your study for you, as 85% of your "posts" are merely what "sir" Roberst Anderson, Paul Saddler, Chuck Ryrie, John Walvoord, Ironside......say, as you are just too lazy, and rely on other Acts 2 blenders?

We see that Jer is running and hiding back to his Acts 2 blender kids, having no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that he can't stand the heat, so he is staying out of the frying pan, and attacking the messengers, engaging in assassination attempst, against one of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, sir saint John W, as he cannot defend his nonsense, made up, ridiculous theory that we are all supernaturally conceived, by the Holy Spirit, identical to the Saviour in "sinlessness," that we are not born in the image and likeness of Adam, "post fall," having his genes, and that children need to be taught to be greedy/disobedient/selfish, and that we are not "by nature the children of wrath."

Why don't you believe the scriptures, Jerry? Why don't you believe God? Who should we believe, you, or Paul?Why do you believe what men say the scripture say,their laughable, ridiculous, nonsense theories, instead of the scriptures themselves?


We see, it is clear, obviously you have no answers, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that we are members of "The Adams Family," "post fall/Genesis 5:3 KJV," having his genes, with a sin nature.

Jer-did you notice my Why don't you believe the scriptures, Jerry? Why don't you believe God? Who should we believe, you, or Paul?Why do you believe what men say the scripture say,their laughable, ridiculous, nonsense theories, instead of the scriptures themselves?



We see that you cannot stand the heat, in the furnace, and are running and hiding, and have no answers. ifd ther


Why do put more faith in what some people like "sir" Robert Anderson, Ironside, Walvoord, Chuck Ryrie,...say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach?


Who should we believe? You, or Paul?


Who should we believe: You, or God?


There is no doubt, whatsoever, that Genesis-Revelation means nothing to you because you prove over and over that you do not actually believe the Scriptures.


We see, it is clear, there is no doubt whatsoever, that you are running and hiding, to your mommie, as you cannot stand the heat in the bedroom.

These questions just shut down everyone!!! Thanks, geezer!



There can be no doubt whatsoever, that once again Jer proves that he puts more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than he does in what the Scriptures actually teach.

And that explains why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I said , as you are running and hiding, with his ridiculous, silly theories, and ignores what the great mid Acts giant, sir Paul says here:

Romans-Philemon


Why don't you play like you are an adult and actually address what Paul said at Romans-Philemon, and why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I have said here:


www.theologyonline.com,and This also explains why you are assassinating the messengers, on TOL. Why do you not address what Paul said, and ignore him, and instead follow what men say, instead of the scriptures? And why should I believe you, instead of Paul?Once again, there can be no doubt, you clearly prove, we see that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach.

You defend a theory which claims that the Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary. All of TOL is still waiting you to actually address the verses which we did quote. Why will you not believe God? The verses we have quoted by themselves disprove the theory of man is born supernaturally via the Holy Spirit just like the Saviour, and the laughable theory that an apple tree becomes an apple tree, only after it produces apples, .and no one has yet been able to prove anything which I /we have said is in error. Jerry can go into his Bozo the clown act in the hope that no one will notice that he has no answer to the facts presented, ignores them, runs and hides, just like you had no answer to the fact that the LORD made Adam upright, “pre-fall,” but we get our daddy Adam’s genes “post fall,” per Genesis 5:3 KJV!

I see you have no answer as to why you assert that everyone is equal to the Saviour, when born, in "sinlessness," and why you assert that the virgin birth was uneccessary, and as to why you assert that Romans-Philemon says the same thing as Hebrews-Rev.

There is no doubt whatsoever, that you continue to ignore the truth that the Bible teaches that men are not sinless when born, identical to the Saviour, that the rapture is not the same as the second coming, that Paul was not just a flunkie, that children need not be taught to misbehave, be selfish, that Job was not a child, in the bible.


Why should we believe you, instead of Paul, blender boy?

You prove once again that you put more faith in what some people like Anderson, Ironside, Walvoord, say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach. The Scriptures reveal that we inherit our genes from Adam/Eve, and that The Holy Spirit was responsible for him being "immaculately conceived," not Joseph, as you assert, and that we are not born sinless, identical to him, like you assert, and thus need no salvation.


Who should we believe? You, or Paul?


Who should we believe: You, or God?


There is no doubt, whatsoever, that Genesis-Revelation means nothing to you because you prove over and over that you do not actually believe the Scriptures.

Don't you believe the bible? We see that you have no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that you do not believe God/Paul/the bible.



We see that Jer is running and hiding back to his Acts 2 blender kids, having no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that he can't stand the heat, so he is staying out of the bedroom, and attacking the messengers, engaging in assassination attempst, against one of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, sir saint John W.

Why don't you believe the bible, Jer, and deny that you have your parents' genes??Why do you not believe the hundreds of verses, refuting your theory, and hope no one will notice you do not believe the bible, including Paul? We see that you have no answer, old man. There can be no doubt whatsoever, that you'd rather believe man, than the bible. Why don't you believe the bible, and Paul? Who should we believe-Paul, or you?


That ought to clinch it.

 

[john w]

Sonny boy, I taught you better than that!

Good one-a milk drinker teaching a meat eater!

I told you over and over again that you can't just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe, and delete verses, like you admit that you, and post verses in isolation, deleting the preceding/following verses, and just post what others say the bible says, not the bible itself, since you admit you do not study it.

Jer is about to tell us when he realized that he was producing apples, and thus was an apple tree, as he "started growing into the roll." Tell us, Jer-when did you realize that you sinned/produced apples, and thus became an apple tree/a sinner, and when did you have to be taught how to be disobedient/greedy/selfish? What age was that? Age 1/2? Age 1? Age 2? Age #?...............When you were a teenager, drinking, smoking cigs, chasing chicks? Unpack it for us?

We see Jer has no answer, and is running and hiding to his Acts 2 blender "it all says the same thing" laughable theory.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Made up.

No, it comes straight from the Bible, sonny boy:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

According to your ideas all people emerge from the womb with a corrupted body but the words of David deny that idea.

 

[john w]

No, it comes straight from the Bible, sonny boy:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

According to your ideas all people emerge from the womb with a corrupted body but the words of David deny that idea.

According to your theory, children nee to be taught how to be greedy/selfish/disobedient, and an apple tree only becomes an apple tree when it produces apples, and we are all supernaturally conceived through the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour, not being from the loins of Adam, having his genes, per Genesis 5:3 KJV.


Why don't you believe the bible?

Only Adam and Eve were made upright. You/us were created in fallen Adam/Eve's image and likeness, having their genes, and rebellious sin nature. Your laughable "An apple tree only becomes an apple tree when it produces apples" theory is refuted by scripture, as is your deletion of "by nature children of wrath," and "after its own kind" in Genesis, as is your laughable "children need not be trained in the way they should go, as they are, by nature, greedy, not selfish, not disobedient" theory, old man, and as is your theory that we are supernaturally conceived by the Holy Spirit, like the Saviour, bypassing getting Adam's genes.


Why don't you believe the bible, geezer, and deny that you have your parents' genes??Why do you not believe the hundreds of verses, refuting your theory, and hope no one will notice you do not believe the bible, including Paul? We see that you have no answer, old man.

Now it is time for you to go into your kid stuff, spam what others say, not the bible, in the hope that no one will notice that you don't believe what Genesis-Revelation says about man having a sin nature, and David said about his body physically, not his sin nature, which he admits he had, and what the author of Hebrews said about the way that the Lord Jesus was made when he put on a flesh and blood body, but was sinless, unlike us, as we are after Adam's genes, not supernaturally born of the Holy Spirit, with no human father, as you state, and you're denial of "by nature children of wrath."


Why do you continue to attack the messenger, and engage in assassination attempt!!!

We see that you have no answers, to my brilliance, slug, as you are stuck on milk, cannot bear the meat, I serve up, with your lack of paying attention to the details of the book, a book of details, as you run and hide to your Acts 2 "it all says the same thing" theory.

Why don't you study the scriptures? Why do you depend on others to do your study for you, as 85% of your "posts" are merely what "sir" Roberst Anderson, Paul Saddler, Chuck Ryrie, John Walvoord, Ironside......say, as you are just too lazy, and rely on other Acts 2 blenders?

We see that Jer is running and hiding back to his Acts 2 blender kids, having no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that he can't stand the heat, so he is staying out of the frying pan, and attacking the messengers, engaging in assassination attempst, against one of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, sir saint John W, as he cannot defend his nonsense, made up, ridiculous theory that we are all supernaturally conceived, by the Holy Spirit, identical to the Saviour in "sinlessness," that we are not born in the image and likeness of Adam, "post fall," having his genes, and that children need to be taught to be greedy/disobedient/selfish, and that we are not "by nature the children of wrath."

Why don't you believe the scriptures, Jerry? Why don't you believe God? Who should we believe, you, or Paul?Why do you believe what men say the scripture say,their laughable, ridiculous, nonsense theories, instead of the scriptures themselves?


We see, it is clear, obviously you have no answers, and there can be no doubt whatsoever that we are members of "The Adams Family," "post fall/Genesis 5:3 KJV," having his genes, with a sin nature.

Jer-did you notice my Why don't you believe the scriptures, Jerry? Why don't you believe God? Who should we believe, you, or Paul?Why do you believe what men say the scripture say,their laughable, ridiculous, nonsense theories, instead of the scriptures themselves?



We see that you cannot stand the heat, in the furnace, and are running and hiding, and have no answers. ifd ther


Why do put more faith in what some people like "sir" Robert Anderson, Ironside, Walvoord, Chuck Ryrie,...say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach?


Who should we believe? You, or Paul?


Who should we believe: You, or God?


There is no doubt, whatsoever, that Genesis-Revelation means nothing to you because you prove over and over that you do not actually believe the Scriptures.


We see, it is clear, there is no doubt whatsoever, that you are running and hiding, to your mommie, as you cannot stand the heat in the bedroom.

These questions just shut down everyone!!! Thanks, geezer!



There can be no doubt whatsoever, that once again Jer proves that he puts more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than he does in what the Scriptures actually teach.

And that explains why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I said , as you are running and hiding, with his ridiculous, silly theories, and ignores what the great mid Acts giant, sir Paul says here:

Romans-Philemon


Why don't you play like you are an adult and actually address what Paul said at Romans-Philemon, and why you did not even attempt to prove anything that I have said here:


www.theologyonline.com,and This also explains why you are assassinating the messengers, on TOL. Why do you not address what Paul said, and ignore him, and instead follow what men say, instead of the scriptures? And why should I believe you, instead of Paul?Once again, there can be no doubt, you clearly prove, we see that you put more faith in what some people say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach.

You defend a theory which claims that the Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary. All of TOL is still waiting you to actually address the verses which we did quote. Why will you not believe God? The verses we have quoted by themselves disprove the theory of man is born supernaturally via the Holy Spirit just like the Saviour, and the laughable theory that an apple tree becomes an apple tree, only after it produces apples, .and no one has yet been able to prove anything which I /we have said is in error. Jerry can go into his Bozo the clown act in the hope that no one will notice that he has no answer to the facts presented, ignores them, runs and hides, just like you had no answer to the fact that the LORD made Adam upright, “pre-fall,” but we get our daddy Adam’s genes “post fall,” per Genesis 5:3 KJV!

I see you have no answer as to why you assert that everyone is equal to the Saviour, when born, in "sinlessness," and why you assert that the virgin birth was uneccessary, and as to why you assert that Romans-Philemon says the same thing as Hebrews-Rev.

There is no doubt whatsoever, that you continue to ignore the truth that the Bible teaches that men are not sinless when born, identical to the Saviour, that the rapture is not the same as the second coming, that Paul was not just a flunkie, that children need not be taught to misbehave, be selfish, that Job was not a child, in the bible.


Why should we believe you, instead of Paul, blender boy?

You prove once again that you put more faith in what some people like Anderson, Ironside, Walvoord, say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually teach. The Scriptures reveal that we inherit our genes from Adam/Eve, and that The Holy Spirit was responsible for him being "immaculately conceived," not Joseph, as you assert, and that we are not born sinless, identical to him, like you assert, and thus need no salvation.


Who should we believe? You, or Paul?


Who should we believe: You, or God?


There is no doubt, whatsoever, that Genesis-Revelation means nothing to you because you prove over and over that you do not actually believe the Scriptures.

Don't you believe the bible? We see that you have no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that you do not believe God/Paul/the bible.



We see that Jer is running and hiding back to his Acts 2 blender kids, having no answers, that there is no doubt, whatsoever, that he can't stand the heat, so he is staying out of the bedroom, and attacking the messengers, engaging in assassination attempst, against one of the giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, sir saint John W.

Why don't you believe the bible, Jer, and deny that you have your parents' genes??Why do you not believe the hundreds of verses, refuting your theory, and hope no one will notice you do not believe the bible, including Paul? We see that you have no answer, old man. There can be no doubt whatsoever, that you'd rather believe man, than the bible. Why don't you believe the bible, and Paul? Who should we believe-Paul, or you?

 

[john w]

No, it comes straight from the Bible, sonny boy:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

According to your ideas all people emerge from the womb with a corrupted body but the words of David deny that idea.

I told you over and over again that you can't just pick and choose which verses you will believe and which ones you will not believe, and delete verses, like you admit that you, and post verses in isolation, deleting the preceding/following verses, and just post what others say the bible says, not the bible itself, since you admit you do not study it.

Jer is about to tell us when he realized that he was producing apples, and thus was an apple tree, as he "started growing into the roll." Tell us, Jer-when did you realize that you sinned/produced apples, and thus became an apple tree/a sinner, and when did you have to be taught how to be disobedient/greedy/selfish? What age was that? Age 1/2? Age 1? Age 2? Age #?...............When you were a teenager, drinking, smoking cigs, chasing chicks? Unpack it for us?

We see Jer has no answer, and is running and hiding to his Acts 2 blender "it all says the same thing" laughable theory.

 

[john w]

Jer is about to tell us when he realized that he was producing apples, and thus was an apple tree, as he "started growing into the roll." Tell us, Jer-when did you realize that you sinned/produced apples, and thus became an apple tree/a sinner, and when did you have to be taught how to be disobedient/greedy/selfish? What age was that? Age 1/2? Age 1? Age 2? Age #?...............When you were a teenager, drinking, smoking cigs, chasing chicks? Unpack it for us?

We see Jer has no answer, and is running and hiding to his Acts 2 blender "it all says the same thing" laughable theory.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Made up. Only Adam and Eve were made upright.

"So I turned my mind to understand, to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare. 'Look,' says the Teacher, 'this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things--while I was still searching but not finding--I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:25-29).​

According to this "mankind" was made upright. The passages is not speaking of Adam and Eve alone because the "context" indicates that the subject of uprightness was in regard to all people and not just Adam and Eve--"I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all."

Face it, sonny boy! You can no longer blame Adam for all of your dastardly deeds.

 

[john w]

"So I turned my mind to understand, to investigate and to search out wisdom and the scheme of things and to understand the stupidity of wickedness and the madness of folly. I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare. 'Look,' says the Teacher, 'this is what I have discovered: Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things--while I was still searching but not finding--I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all. This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes'" (Eccl.7:25-29).​

According to this "mankind" was made upright. The passages is not speaking of Adam and Eve alone because the "context" indicates that the subject of uprightness was in regard to all people and not just Adam and Eve--"I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all."

Face it, sonny boy! You can no longer blame Adam for all of your dastardly deeds.

No, according to your theory, children must be taught to be disobedient/selfish/greedy.....and Jer. deletes:

Proverbs 22:6 KJV Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Geezer version:Train up a child in the way he should go after he learns how to sin, by being disobedient, greedy, selfish, which his parents taught him, since he was born upright, and when he is older, he will become more upright, even though he has developed a sin nature.


No, you made up that "context."

As I/others, have explained to you, yes, the LORD God hath made man, our first "parents, Adam and Eve, "man," upright, without any imperfection/corruption, conformable to the LORD God's own nature, and will, after his own likeness, image,..."good....very good.".

They, man/Adam and Eve, our first parents, "post fall," and after them their posterity, progeny, "The Adams Family," follows their steps, seeking out many inventions, not being content, not being "satisfied,".....

According to Jer, Job was a child.



Job 1:1 KJV

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 KJV

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?



Job 2:3 KJV

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.


The Kid Jer Pate,Jr.: Job was only 1 day old at this time.....

Face it, sonny boy! You can no longer blame Adam for all of your dastardly deeds.

Who do you blame for you, at what age, for becoming a sinner, old man? What caused you to sin/produce apples/sins, that, according to you, made you an apple tree/sinner? The devil?. Your sin nature? Not your fault, eh?

How long have you been a Pelagianism follower, who asserts that we are good people, and "God" just wants us to be "better?" Why don't you believe the bible, which testifies that God does not want to "reform, mend, a basically good person, to make the 'better'," but to create a new creature, to make spiritually dead people, "in Adam," alive, in Christ?

Why do you blame God for creating man, knowing that he would "develop a sin nature," grow into an apple tree, not by nature," and sin, and thus we have wars..........? Why do you blame God, for sending people to hell?

You can no longer blame God for all of your dastardly deeds.

Who do you blame? Yourself? What caused you to do "dastardly deeds?" Watch the ridiculous, laughable response, from monk follower Pelagia.

Why don't you believe the bible?

And Jer will not answer:

Jer is about to tell us when he realized that he was producing apples, and thus was an apple tree, as he "started growing into the roll." Tell us, Jer-when did you realize that you sinned/produced apples, and thus became an apple tree/a sinner, and when did you have to be taught how to be disobedient/greedy/selfish? What age was that? Age 1/2? Age 1? Age 2? Age #?...............When you were a teenager, drinking, smoking cigs, chasing chicks? Unpack it for us?

We see Jer has no answer, and is running and hiding to his Acts 2 blender "it all says the same thing" laughable theory.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, according to your theory, children must be taught to be disobedient/selfish/greedy.....and Jer. deletes:

Proverbs 22:6 KJV Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Geezer version:Train up a child in the way he should go after he learns how to sin, by being disobedient, greedy, selfish, which his parents taught him, since he was born upright, and when he is older, he will become more upright, even though he has developed a sin nature.


No, you made up that "context."

As I/others, have explained to you, yes, the LORD God hath made man, our first "parents, Adam and Eve, "man," upright, without any imperfection/corruption, conformable to the LORD God's own nature, and will, after his own likeness, image,..."good....very good.".

They, man/Adam and Eve, our first parents, "post fall," and after them their posterity, progeny, "The Adams Family," follows their steps, seeking out many inventions, not being content, not being "satisfied,".....

According to Jer, Job was a child.



Job 1:1 KJV

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 KJV

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?



Job 2:3 KJV

And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.


The Kid Jer Pate,Jr.: Job was only 1 day old at this time.....




Who do you blame for you, at what age, for becoming a sinner, old man? What caused you to sin/produce apples/sins, that, according to you, made you an apple tree/sinner? The devil?. Your sin nature? Not your fault, eh?

How long have you been a Pelagianism follower, who asserts that we are good people, and "God" just wants us to be "better?" Why don't you believe the bible, which testifies that God does not want to "reform, mend, a basically good person, to make the 'better'," but to create a new creature, to make spiritually dead people, "in Adam," alive, in Christ?

Why do you blame God for creating man, knowing that he would "develop a sin nature," grow into an apple tree, not by nature," and sin, and thus we have wars..........? Why do you blame God, for sending people to hell?

You can no longer blame God for all of your dastardly deeds.

Who do you blame? Yourself? What caused you to do "dastardly deeds?" Watch the ridiculous, laughable response, from monk follower Pelagia.

Why don't you believe the bible?

And Jer will not answer:

Wait.....back up.

You said;

"As I/others, have explained to you, yes, the LORD God hath made man, our first "parents, Adam and Eve, "man," upright, without any imperfection/corruption, conformable to the LORD God's own nature, and will, after his own likeness, image,..."good....very good."."


How did Adam go against the will of GOD then?

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[john w]

Wait.....back up.

You said;

"As I/others, have explained to you, yes, the LORD God hath made man, our first "parents, Adam and Eve, "man," upright, without any imperfection/corruption, conformable to the LORD God's own nature, and will, after his own likeness, image,..."good....very good."."


How did Adam go against the will of GOD then?

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Survey Genesis..."The Fall"...The subtil serpent(Genesis 3:1 KJV)makes a 3 part appeal to the woman, corresponding with the "3 part" nature of mankind's "make up," constitution-Genesis 3:6 KJV:

1."And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,"=appeal to the bodily senses.

2."...and that it was pleasant to the eyes,..."=appealing to the desire nature, emotions, that are rooted, seated in our soul.

3. "...and a tree to be desired to make one wise,"= appealing to the intelligence, which has its center in the spirit-see 1 Cor. 2:11:KJV. Thus, Eccl. 7:29 "inventions."

Satan-works from without, to within.


Vs.

The divine operation of the LORD God, which works within man's inner being, and the change, "new creature," reacts, causes a transformation to the outward life.

Satan tried these same wares against the Saviour in the desert:

Matthew 4 KJV

3"...command that these stones be made bread."=an appeal to the bodily senses

6"... cast thyself down.."=an appeal to the emotional nature of the soul

9"...fall down and worship me."=an appeal to the spirit, as we should worship "in spirit and in truth"(John 4:24 KJV)

The first Adam failed; the last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ, won.

Quite a contrast; quite a Saviour.



James 1 KJV
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.



1 John 2:16 KJV

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Survey Genesis, "The Seed Plot" of the book:

Genesis 3 KJV
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


Parallels:

-saw that the tree was good for food/the lust of the flesh

-saw...that it was pleasant to the eyes/the lust of the eyes

-saw...that it was to be desired to make one wise/the pride of life
(...ye shall be as gods...-"Genesis 3:5 KJV;" I will...I will...I will...I will...I will be like the most High."-Isiah 14: 12-14 KJV)

Saw....desired....took....


Thus, the "fall."


The bible...A book of details.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Survey Genesis..."The Fall"...The subtil serpent(Genesis 3:1 KJV)makes a 3 part appeal to the woman, corresponding with the "3 part" nature of mankind's "make up," constitution-Genesis 3:6 KJV:

1."And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,"=appeal to the bodily senses.

2."...and that it was pleasant to the eyes,..."=appealing to the desire nature, emotions, that are rooted, seated in our soul.

3. "...and a tree to be desired to make one wise,"= appealing to the intelligence, which has its center in the spirit-see 1 Cor. 2:11:KJV. Thus, Eccl. 7:29 "inventions."

Satan-works from without, to within.


Vs.

The divine operation of the LORD God, which works within man's inner being, and the change, "new creature," reacts, causes a transformation to the outward life.

Satan tried these same wares against the Saviour in the desert:

Matthew 4 KJV

3"...command that these stones be made bread."=an appeal to the bodily senses

6"... cast thyself down.."=an appeal to the emotional nature of the soul

9"...fall down and worship me."=an appeal to the spirit, as we should worship "in spirit and in truth"(John 4:24 KJV)

The first Adam failed; the last Adam, the Lord Jesus Christ, won.

Quite a contrast; quite a Saviour.



James 1 KJV
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.



1 John 2:16 KJV

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Survey Genesis, "The Seed Plot" of the book:

Genesis 3 KJV
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.


Parallels:

-saw that the tree was good for food/the lust of the flesh

-saw...that it was pleasant to the eyes/the lust of the eyes

-saw...that it was to be desired to make one wise/the pride of life
(...ye shall be as gods...-"Genesis 3:5 KJV;" I will...I will...I will...I will...I will be like the most High."-Isiah 14: 12-14 KJV)

Saw....desired....took....


Thus, the "fall."


The bible...A book of details.

We agree totally here....thank you.


That in no way refutes my points that;

A) if Adam was of GOD and Eve of Adam which indeed had the Spirit breathed into him and was his source of life then they would have been wholly good as you said.....so how could they have had the capacity to turn from GOD?

You answered this quite right I believe and thank you again....it was through inticement, temptation and greed.....from the outside in as you put it I think. This wholly agreed with my supposition that evil is natural and intrinsic only as potential which is basically triggered by surroundings..... or greed.....the desire for said onservable temptations.

B) just a repeat; back to square one; it seems that evil is not giving to us by GOD, but is through the hands and lusts of man due to freedom given by GOD, which is no burden whatsoever, but allows for man to turn to evil.

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[Jerry Shugart]

Geezer version:Train up a child in the way he should go after he learns how to sin, by being disobedient, greedy, selfish, which his parents taught him, since he was born upright, and when he is older, he will become more upright, even though he has developed a sin nature.

john weenie version: Every one of those infants who die deserve hell!

 

[john w]

john weenie version: Every one of those infants who die deserve hell!

Weakling, frail looking old man Jerry/atheists: It is not fair to confine people to hell, who do good works!!!!!! It is not fair to give people a free gift and "free pass" to heaven!!!! I would have not sinned like Adam!!!!!! It's not fair!!!!!! I am basically good!!!!! I am getting better, although not as good as when I was born, since I was born upright, which means without sin, incapable of sinning!!!!!! I don't know what caused me to sin/produce apples, or when, but now that I "evolved" into an apple tree/sinner, but, I am good now, getting better, and just look at all my apple tree apples, fruit, which I worked hard to produce, since, "by nature," I am not an apple tree/sinner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And it's not fair, God, that you even created us, knowing ahead of time, we would all fail...resulting in crime, murders, wars, violence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And it's not fair that you sent this "Jesus" to the cross!!!!!!

Well, I gotta go, as I need to give my parents a piece of my mind, for making me bald,a weakling, with a puny brain, even though I do not have their genes.....But it is still their fault, for teaching me, when I was a child, to be disobedient, greedy, selfish!!!!!!!


Shut your trap, you humanist Shugart, and thank God he does not kick your wicked a--, and send you to hell.

 

[john w]

We agree totally here....thank you.


That in no way refutes my points that;

A) if Adam was of GOD and Eve of Adam which indeed had the Spirit breathed into him and was his source of life then they would have been wholly good as you said.....so how could they have had the capacity to turn from GOD?

You answered this quite right I believe and thank you again....it was through inticement, temptation and greed.....from the outside in as you put it I think. This wholly agreed with my supposition that evil is natural and intrinsic only as potential which is basically triggered by surroundings..... or greed.....the desire for said onservable temptations.

B) just a repeat; back to square one; it seems that evil is not giving to us by GOD, but is through the hands and lusts of man due to freedom given by GOD, which is no burden whatsoever, but allows for man to turn to evil.

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No, we have Adam's genes, post fall, Genesis 5:3 KJV, "by nature, children of wrath.". Adam/Eve, "they," only was made in God's image and likeness.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No, we have Adam's genes, post fall, Genesis 5:3 KJV, "by nature, children of wrath.". Adam/Eve, "they," only was made in God's image and likeness.

That is a logical disconnect to me....we can disagree on this issue.....no biggie as long as we agree that we can repent.....yeah?

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