Is marital rape scripturally defensible?

[genuineoriginal]

A silly notion...

Tell me - Do you regard marriage as a Sacrament of the Body of Christ?

Marriage was instituted by God the Father as a universal way of bonding male and female humans together.
It is not limited to the Body of Christ.

If not, then it is no more than a secular matter and can be whatever society decides it is

Marriage was instituted by God the Father as a universal way of bonding male and female humans together.

, and you have no complaint when men marry men, or their dogs, for that matter...

Check the scriptures in Leviticus 18.
There is no mention of the Body of Christ.
There is no mention of a Sacrament.
There is a death penalty for men having sex with men and for men or women having sex with beasts.

And if yes, then it is for keeps

If it is for keeps, then there would not be the laws of divorce in Deuteronomy 24.

, and criminal law can apply without dissolving the union, though it may separate the two spouses...

That is the way it is currently being done.
I am advocating automatic dissolution of the marriage in all criminal cases where the wife and husband are the plaintiff and defendant (not necessarily in that order).
I am not advocating dissolution of the marriage in all criminal cases.

And the marriage can only be dissolved through Ecclesiastical means...

No.
Most marriages are created without any help from the Orthodox church, and can be dissolved just as easily.
If you look at what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:16, any sexual joining of a man and a woman can result in that couple being married in the eyes of God without any help from an Orthodox priest.

But YOU are treating marriage as a secular matter between Christians, and not as a Sacred and Ecclesiastical matter between God and the married couple He has joined...

No, I am treating a wife or husband bringing criminal charges against her/his spouse as a secular matter that is handled in a secular court, with the result that their marriage itself has come under the authority of the exact same secular courts.

IF I am hearing you right...

How else could a legal plaintiff-defendant action between two married people cause dissolution of the marriage?

If a marriage results in a plaintiff-defendant action between two married people, that marriage has reached an irreconcilable state.
Because it is in an irreconcilable state, the marriage should be dissolved.

 

[Arsenios]

Goinig to frigidity is an easy thing for women. but not to men I. think that giving sex is a duty of marriage and should be given as possible.

So rape in marriage is good for man to do?

Because men have no self-control in sex?

Is that why you put burkas on women?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I'm talking about the wives who refuses sex many times.

So let's say that the husband only has sex with his wife once each year...

Do you think rape of wife is therefore OK for the husband to do???

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Show me one place in the NT of the church marrying anyone?

The church has turned marriage into a sacrament.

This is just a church tradition.

One Christian marrying another should consider this marriage covenant binding, because Christ says so, not because the church says so.

Christ is the Head of His Body, the Church, for which Paul suffered...

The Church existed prior to Christ, but not then as the Body of Christ... Then, even in the time of Noah, daughters were being given in marriage... The Christian Church simply set a higher bar, because its marrieds are members of the Body of Christ... Within Christ, Marriage is a Sacrament within His Body, and He is the Head...

Outside the Body of Christ, marriage can be anything people may want it to be...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Marriage was instituted by God the Father as a universal way of bonding male and female humans together.
It is not limited to the Body of Christ.

Then there is Christian Marriage, and non-Christian marriage...

Marriage was instituted by God the Father as a universal way of bonding male and female humans together.

Agreed, and within the Body of Christ-God Who is Her Head, Marriage is a Sacrament...

If it is for keeps, then there would not be the laws of divorce in Deuteronomy 24.

There is no marriage in the Age to Come, and divorce was granted, as Christ explained, due to the hardness of men's hearts...

I am advocating automatic dissolution of the marriage in all criminal cases where the wife and husband are the plaintiff and defendant (not necessarily in that order).

Then you have a secular, and not a sacred, understanding of marriage...

Most marriages are created ... and can be dissolved just as easily.
If you look at what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:16, any sexual joining of a man and a woman can result in that couple being married in the eyes of God...

The passage speaks of the destructive power of marital union outside marriage...

No, I am treating a wife or husband bringing criminal charges against her/his spouse as a secular matter that is handled in a secular court, with the result that their marriage itself has come under the authority of the exact same secular courts.

Then you are speaking of secularizing marriage...

If a marriage results in a plaintiff-defendant action between two married people, that marriage has reached an irreconcilable state.
Because it is in an irreconcilable state, the marriage should be dissolved.

Very secularized...

Arsenios

 

[iouae]

Christ is the Head of His Body, the Church, for which Paul suffered...

The Church existed prior to Christ, but not then as the Body of Christ... Then, even in the time of Noah, daughters were being given in marriage... The Christian Church simply set a higher bar, because its marrieds are members of the Body of Christ... Within Christ, Marriage is a Sacrament within His Body, and He is the Head...

Outside the Body of Christ, marriage can be anything people may want it to be...

Arsenios

You have zero proof that marriage is a sacrament.
The idea of a sacrament is a man-made one.
There are no sacraments in the church.

The Catholic church has 7 sacraments.
It has taken upon itself to have authority in administering these.
This is just a tradition which arose long after the original church.

You cannot bring one scripture to show the church should marry anyone.


Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Church completely left out.

Since the church has no power to bind, it has no power to loose.
When two Christians get married they should know that before God, they are covenanting to be joined for life.

When two secular folk get married, it means whatever the state says it means.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Then there is Christian Marriage, and non-Christian marriage...

There is marriage.
It was created by God.
The spouses may be Christian or non-Christian.
It is still the marriage mentioned by Jesus.

Then you have a secular, and not a sacred, understanding of marriage...

I have a Biblical understanding of marriage, which cannot be said of the Orthodox church.

Then you are speaking of secularizing marriage...

If it was not already a secular marriage, it was secularized the moment the spouses became plaintiff and defendant.

You seem to have some misunderstanding about marriage, presumably caused by the teachings of the Orthodox church.

 

[Crucible]

If it was not already a secular marriage, it was secularized the moment the spouses became plaintiff and defendant.

^that

 

[ok doser]

Yes, you never pressed charges.

i wonder if there's a statue of limitations :think:

So a Christian man and a Christian woman get married...
The man beats the woman up, breaks her arm, and smashed her foot with a hammer, and then tells her that if she tells anyone, he will REALLY hurt her...

:freak:

in what way is that the behavior of a Christian man?


what do you think it means, to be a Christian, a follower of Christ?

 

[egyptianmuslim]

So rape in marriage is good for man to do?

Because men have no self-control in sex?

Is that why you put burkas on women?

Arsenios

If she can she should do

 

[egyptianmuslim]

So let's say that the husband only has sex with his wife once each year...

Do you think rape of wife is therefore OK for the husband to do???

Arsenios

No

But this will lead to Disloyalty or divorce.

 

[ok doser]

There is such a thing as a celibate marriage...

there is such a thing as non-alcoholic beer too, but you won't find me buying it

 

[ok doser]

If she can she should do

do or not do

there is no can

 

[egyptianmuslim]

do or not do

there is no can

Some wives would like not to give free sex to her husband, he should pay( doing her orders)

 

[elohiym]

as i've shared elsewhere - she raped* me often during our marriage

*by the current US DoJ definition

That definition states: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

There is no rape without penetration.

 

[elohiym]

Yes, you never pressed charges.

i wonder if there's a statue of limitations :think:

You have been describing first degree rape according New York state code, where you live. There is no statute of limitations for rape in New York. See N.Y. Penal Law § 130.35. The penalty is 5 to 25 years in prison.

 

[elohiym]

I answered your question about what was taken from you when you were raped (here), but it seems odd that anyone would have to explain it to you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That definition states: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

Yes, that is the rewritten definition of rape that is being objected to in this thread.

The correct definition of rape is the one used in common law from 1960 and before.
"A carnal knowledge of a woman not one's wife by force or against her will."

 

[Crucible]

There is such a thing as a celibate marriage...

It has a long and honorable tradition in the History of the Christian Church...

Arsenios

Tradition and what is taught of general marriage are two different animals.

Practicing celibacy in or out of marriage is a good discipline for spiritual fruits, but Paul is pretty thorough otherwise on normal marriage.

 

[EverydayFaithful]

No...