Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

intojoy

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ASV needed revising. Don't be an ASV-only....it is no better or worse than other versions.

I enjoy reading passages from several versions to see the meaning of scripture. ASV 1901, NASB, NKJ, KJV in that order. I don't like the NIV as a translation because it is not one. It's a great paraphrase version but because the majority of the translators adhered to replacement theology their preconceived philosophical prejudices became part of the NIV and one must beware when coming to passages relating to Israel.
 

godrulz

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I enjoy reading passages from several versions to see the meaning of scripture. ASV 1901, NASB, NKJ, KJV in that order. I don't like the NIV as a translation because it is not one. It's a great paraphrase version but because the majority of the translators adhered to replacement theology their preconceived philosophical prejudices became part of the NIV and one must beware when coming to passages relating to Israel.

I do not think it is true that NIV supports Replacement. Perhaps there were Calvinisitic covenantalists, but that is not Replacement and there would also be dispensationalists, etc. on the committee to negate bias.

LB, The Message, Good News, etc. were paraphrases.

NIV is a balance between formal and functional equivalence, but more to the functional side of the spectrum. It is more literal at times than so-called literal Bibles and the literal Bibles also mix in much functional equivalence and can be less literal at times. This is not paraphrasing, but a translation philosophy of emphasis on meaning or emphasis on form. Going from one language to another makes strict form impossible. All translations do what NIV does, but to a more or less degree. NIV is actually more in the middle (optimal equivalence like HCSB) trying to get the best of both. It is less so, obviously, than KJV, ESV, RSV, NASB, etc.

It is a myth that literal is always more accurate. It can be shown that being too literal can lead to wrong vs right meaning (being less literal can be more accurate). It is a case by case issue with grammar, idioms, etc.

Good arguments can be made for both sides, so it is wise to compare versions from each category and do original language work.
 

intojoy

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I do not think it is true that NIV supports Replacement. Perhaps there were Calvinisitic covenantalists, but that is not Replacement and there would also be dispensationalists, etc. on the committee to negate bias.

LB, The Message, Good News, etc. were paraphrases.

NIV is a balance between formal and functional equivalence, but more to the functional side of the spectrum. It is more literal at times than so-called literal Bibles and the literal Bibles also mix in much functional equivalence and can be less literal at times. This is not paraphrasing, but a translation philosophy of emphasis on meaning or emphasis on form. Going from one language to another makes strict form impossible. All translations do what NIV does, but to a more or less degree. NIV is actually more in the middle (optimal equivalence like HCSB) trying to get the best of both. It is less so, obviously, than KJV, ESV, RSV, NASB, etc.

It is a myth that literal is always more accurate. It can be shown that being too literal can lead to wrong vs right meaning (being less literal can be more accurate). It is a case by case issue with grammar, idioms, etc.

Good arguments can be made for both sides, so it is wise to compare versions from each category and do original language work.



And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. (*Galatians‬ *6‬:*16‬ KJV)

Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God. (*Galatians‬ *6‬:*16‬ NIV)

Paul seperated two categories. "Them" gentile believers and " Israel of God" Jewish believers.

No charge for that.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Where is your "the Bible" to compare it to?

He has 30 Bibles, doesn't believe any of them, and corrects them all.
But has the nerve to criticize someone who has a Bible he/she can believe in.

The underlying attitude behind his criticism of us is not from God, but the evil one. Hath God said?
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
it is no better or worse than other versions.

If I didn't have a Bible I could trust, I would not bother studying at all.

Would you study 30 different Math textbooks, some of which say 2+2=5, some say 2+2=4, some say 2+2=3?
No, you would ridicule any Math student who studied 30 different textbooks which said opposing things.
 

godrulz

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Your attitude to those who believe the words on the page over your silly scholars is pathetic.

Ad hominem....I believe the Bible as much as you do, but it must be properly interpreted and applied (you also believe this).

KJVO is a false view. Scholars may be silly, but not when they are right and you are wrong. You have been influenced by poor teachers, so why object if someone is influenced by good teachers? Considering ideas from other MAD types is fine for you, but if I consider a non-MAD source, I am putting scholars above Scripture? Hypocrite.
 

godrulz

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Where is your "the Bible" to compare it to?

Your poor logic is that KJV alone=Word of God alone. This is circular reasoning/begging the question contradicted by a mountain of evidence. You make the KJV the standard of perfection and what everything else is compared to. This is a problem since it is a wrong assumption leading to a wrong conclusion.

The KJV translators built upon preceding versions, used textual criticism like any other translator, made informed, imperfect decisions that needed revising (you claim 1611 but are actually using 1769 or something), etc.

We are all in the same boat, but you don't realize it.
 

Bright Raven

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Ad hominem....I believe the Bible as much as you do, but it must be properly interpreted and applied (you also believe this).

KJVO is a false view. Scholars may be silly, but not when they are right and you are wrong. You have been influenced by poor teachers, so why object if someone is influenced by good teachers? Considering ideas from other MAD types is fine for you, but if I consider a non-MAD source, I am putting scholars above Scripture? Hypocrite.

Why would you say the KJV is a false view? If someone comes up with the proper interpretation of scripture using the KJV, why would you call it false. False is coming up with and improper interpretation using something other that the KJV.
 

godrulz

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Yes, I'm fool enough to believe God preserved his Word, and that I can read it, believe it, trust it, cherish it, and rest on it daily.

Hundreds of millions of non-KJVO evangelicals, including myself, say the same thing. KJVO undermines the credibility of Scripture with skeptics, not enhances it. You have a myth. I have faith based on facts.

God has preserved His Word and it is trustworthy, but not in the way you think and not exclusively in the KJV (which ever version you actually use...it is not 1611).
 

godrulz

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He has 30 Bibles, doesn't believe any of them, and corrects them all.
But has the nerve to criticize someone who has a Bible he/she can believe in.

The underlying attitude behind his criticism of us is not from God, but the evil one. Hath God said?

Jesus quoted the imperfect LXX as the Word of God as did other NT writers.

I believe the Bibles since they all teach the same thing (KJV is actually weaker on the Deity of Christ in some places).

Textual criticism is for accuracy, not for ruining the accuracy. All works of antiquity, including KJV, must do it.

Even if KJV was the only Bible on the planet, it is still subject to interpretation and application. Mormons and Westboro Baptists exclusively used it.
 

godrulz

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If I didn't have a Bible I could trust, I would not bother studying at all.

Would you study 30 different Math textbooks, some of which say 2+2=5, some say 2+2=4, some say 2+2=3?
No, you would ridicule any Math student who studied 30 different textbooks which said opposing things.

Every credible evangelical version teaches the same beliefs and practices (even if some textual variants differ....KJV has verses that are weaker on the Deity of Christ than moderns). The KJVO e.g. of supposed corruption fall apart when scrutinized.

If you are comparing JW/WT NWT, then you have a point.

www.biblegateway.com refutes you.
 
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