Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

[Lighthouse]

They interrupted Peter in Acts 2 as well, you moron.

Even if, Peter never preached the same thing as Paul in regard to the death and resurrection having been for the forgiveness of sin.

Said Lighthouse, adding to God's word.

It is only logical that those who said they wanted to hear more and followed him heard more.:dunce::duh:

Lighthouse is a monophysite heretic, a non-believer and a teacher of a false Jesus.

Speaking of adding to His word where does the Bible that tells us Jesus was a Man, and a human being at that, tell us He had a human nature as well as a divine nature, e.g. two natures at once?

I'm not sure you add much to conversations among Christians about theology Lighthouse because you aren't one yet.

You are an accuser of the brethren and your attempts to condemn me have no effect.

Even if I am wrong on something does not mean I am not saved; it simply means God has not yet led me to the truth, but I am certainly more than willing to be led and admit my error if I ever find I was wrong. Can you say the same for yourself?

 

[Dialogos]

Peter preached the gospel of God in Acts 2 and 3, too. That doesn't mean that Peter preached Paul's gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation. :duh:

Wait, I thought you said that Paul preached the gospel of God... Romans 1 says so.

So you are arguing that there are two gospels of God now?

MAD is a moving target.

:idunno:

So Peter's gospel wasn't the power of Christ unto salvation then?

Whose power unto salvation was it?

 

[heir]

Wait, I thought you said that Paul preached the gospel of God... Romans 1 says so.

The Bible shows that Peter preached the gospel of God. The Bible shows that Paul preached the gospel of God; who Jesus Christ is and that God raised Him from the dead. It's not hard.

So Peter's gospel wasn't the power of Christ unto salvation then?

Peter never preached the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation. You can twist and shout, but it's not there.

 

[heir]

MAD is a moving target.

You're trying to make it one.

 

[heir]

So you are arguing that there are two gospels of God now?

Christ was only raised from the dead ONCE. What did Peter preach as the reason? And Paul?

 

[Dialogos]

Even if, Peter never preached the same thing as Paul in regard to the death and resurrection having been for the forgiveness of sin.

Yes he did.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." (1Pe 2:24-25 ESV)​

It is only logical that those who said they wanted to hear more and followed him heard more.:dunce::duh:

You think that those in Acts 2 never heard from Peter again?

There are many sermons by the apostles that we have no record of. That doesn't mean you get to make up what they said based on your own imagination.

Stick with the word!

Speaking of adding to His word where does the Bible that tells us Jesus was a Man,

1 tim 2:5, read it!

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus," (1Ti 2:5 ESV)"

and a human being at that,

The same verse.

... and there is one Mediator between God and men (ανθρωπος) the man (ανθρωπος) Christ Jesus"

The same Greek word that Paul uses to speak of the humanity of those for whom Christ mediates is used to speak of Christ the mediator.

tell us He had a human nature as well as a divine nature, e.g. two natures at once?

That's the only logical conclusion of the biblical facts.

Show me the single verse that says explicitly that God is Triune. You can't. Nevertheless, the Trinity is the only logical conclusion from the biblical facts.

1. Jesus is God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. They are distinct and co-existent.

Therefore, God is Triune.

I hope you at least accept this, right?

The same is true of the dual nature of Christ Jesus.
1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus is a Man.
3. Men are human.
4. Humans have a human nature :duh:
5. All members of the Trinity share the Divine nature.

Therefore Jesus has both a Divine and human nature.

You are an accuser of the brethren and your attempts to condemn me have no effect.

There are some things that if you are obstinate about your error, you aren't a brother and tinkering with the essence of the Person of Christ is one of those things.

Jehovah's witnesses the LDS, the christadelphians, etc.. all deny essential truth about the nature of God and/or the nature of Christ.

I don't consider them brother's either.

Even if I am wrong on something does not mean I am not saved; it simply means God has not yet led me to the truth, but I am certainly more than willing to be led and admit my error if I ever find I was wrong. Can you say the same for yourself?

Jehovah's witnesses are wrong on somethings and the things that they are wrong about are so serious that they aren't saved. Maybe they have not yet been led to the truth, nevertheless. A yet to be converted Jehovah's witness is still lost.

You also hold to a heresy about the nature of Christ. That's a big deal! I hope that God does lead you to the truth of the full humanity of Christ just like there are some Jehovah's witnesses that I hope God will lead to the truth of the full divinity of Christ. Until they are so led, they aren't believers. And until you are so led, you aren't one either.

 

[Lighthouse]

Yes he did.

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were straying like sheep, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls." (1Pe 2:24-25 ESV)​

Still doesn't say His death and resurrection cleansed us from sin, for all time. It says He bore their sins as the sacrificial lambs before Him bore the sin in the sin offerings. The only difference is He was the last necessary and all future sin was to be confessed, regretted, turned from and reckoned unto Him.

You think that those in Acts 2 never heard from Peter again?

I didn't even imply that.

There are many sermons by the apostles that we have no record of. That doesn't mean you get to make up what they said based on your own imagination.

I'm not making up what they said. I'm going off of what we have recorded, and stating what they did say on the record and what they did not say on the record.

Stick with the word!

I am. They said they wanted to hear more and they followed him. Only an idiot would deny that they heard more.

1 tim 2:5, read it!

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus," (1Ti 2:5 ESV)"

What of it?

The same verse.

... and there is one Mediator between God and men (ανθρωπος) the man (ανθρωπος) Christ Jesus"

And?

The same Greek word that Paul uses to speak of the humanity of those for whom Christ mediates is used to speak of Christ the mediator.

Did I deny His humanity?

That's the only logical conclusion of the biblical facts.

Jesus is human. What of it?

Show me the single verse that says explicitly that God is Triune. You can't. Nevertheless, the Trinity is the only logical conclusion from the biblical facts.

1. Jesus is God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Holy Spirit is God.
4. They are distinct and co-existent.

Therefore, God is Triune.

I hope you at least accept this, right?

1 John 5:7

The same is true of the dual nature of Christ Jesus.
1. Jesus is God
2. Jesus is a Man.
3. Men are human.
4. Humans have a human nature :duh:
5. All members of the Trinity share the Divine nature.

Therefore Jesus has both a Divine and human nature.

Circular reasoning.

There are some things that if you are obstinate about your error, you aren't a brother and tinkering with the essence of the Person of Christ is one of those things.

Jehovah's witnesses the LDS, the christadelphians, etc.. all deny essential truth about the nature of God and/or the nature of Christ.

I don't consider them brother's either.

I'm not denying anything clearly stated in the Bible.

Jehovah's witnesses are wrong on somethings and the things that they are wrong about are so serious that they aren't saved. Maybe they have not yet been led to the truth, nevertheless. A yet to be converted Jehovah's witness is still lost.

You also hold to a heresy about the nature of Christ. That's a big deal! I hope that God does lead you to the truth of the full humanity of Christ just like there are some Jehovah's witnesses that I hope God will lead to the truth of the full divinity of Christ. Until they are so led, they aren't believers. And until you are so led, you aren't one either.

I don't deny His full humanity.

 

[Nick M]

Now compare Israel enduring to the end. And thanks for outing yourself a vile pervert.

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

We are not saved by our allegiance to a duty (faith), we are saved by his.

 

[Dialogos]

Still doesn't say His death and resurrection cleansed us from sin, for all time.

No, Hebrews, which most MAD folks say is the circumcision gospel says that His death and ressurrection cleansed us from sin, for all time.

"But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." (Heb 10:12-14)​

It says He bore their sins as the sacrificial lambs before Him bore the sin in the sin offerings.

Have you ever read the book of Hebrews?

For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. (Hebrews 10:1-4)​

The sacrifices of the OT were the shadow of the good things to come.

Did I deny His humanity?

Are you serious?

You categorically denied the Humanity of Christ in post #7 of this thread.

Jesus is God, and Jesus is Man. Jesus is not human.

I've highlighted your heresy.

:doh:

Now you say:

Jesus is human. What of it?

:hammer:

:dizzy:

Do you have a different Christology every week?

Seriously, you contradict yourself on essential Christian doctrine every three days now?

Why don't you figure out what you actually believe and then you will have something to contribute of theological substance.

Until then, all you are doing is breeding confusion for yourself and for others.

 

[Dialogos]

The Bible shows that Peter preached the gospel of God.

Yes it does, well said.

The Bible shows that Paul preached the gospel of God;

Yes it does, equally well said.

Most rational folk would come to the logical conclusion that they preached the same gospel based on these two well noticed facts.

..who Jesus Christ is and that God raised Him from the dead.

Both Paul and Peter preached this as well. So far we are still tracking well on the same gospel theory.

It's not hard.

No, not really, but I'm guessing you still are sticking with the two gospel theory despite your own arguments to the contrary so far.

Peter never preached the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation.

Now you are just undermining your own argument because Paul clearly says that this gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (not just the uncircumcised) and makes it clear that this is to the Jew first.

Romans 1:16....

Just because Peter never duplicated this phrase does not negate the reality that Paul says that it was just as true of the Jews as it was of the Greeks and, in fact, it was true of the Jews first.


No need to twist and shout, all I need to do is actually read all of Romans 1:16.

 

[Lighthouse]

No, Hebrews, which most MAD folks say is the circumcision gospel says that His death and ressurrection cleansed us from sin, for all time.

"But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." (Heb 10:12-14)​

Have you ever read the book of Hebrews?

For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. (Hebrews 10:1-4)​

The sacrifices of the OT were the shadow of the good things to come.

:bang:

His sacrifice was once for all, but they were not cleansed of future sins, as you showed with a verse stating their past sins were forgiven.:dunce::duh:

Are you serious?

You categorically denied the Humanity of Christ in post #7 of this thread.

I've highlighted your heresy.

:doh:

Now you say:


:hammer:

:dizzy:

Do you have a different Christology every week?

Seriously, you contradict yourself on essential Christian doctrine every three days now?

Why don't you figure out what you actually believe and then you will have something to contribute of theological substance.

Until then, all you are doing is breeding confusion for yourself and for others.

No, I'm just annoying you.

 

[Nick M]

No, Hebrews, which most MAD folks say is the circumcision gospel says that His death and ressurrection cleansed us from sin, for all time.

Actually, the author states it in the future tense. Dan P can probably show us that. lain:

 

[heir]

Now you are just undermining your own argument because Paul clearly says that this gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (not just the uncircumcised) and makes it clear that this is to the Jew first.

:doh: Of course, PAUL did! Notice how you can't show where Peter did, but would like us to believe that he did.

According to Peter in Acts, why was Christ raised from the dead? According to Paul, why was Christ raised from the dead? Why won't you answer?

 

[heir]

Wait, I thought you said that Paul preached the gospel of God... Romans 1 says so.

He also preached the gospel of Christ, which is Paul's "my gospel", to establish the Romans, who already had a faith in the gospel of God.


What will you, a one gospel theory person, ever do?

 

[heir]

Yes it does, well said.

You act as if that is all that Peter preached. What did Peter tell those people in Acts 2 to do when he delivered them a murder indictment (not glory in the cross, as Paul)?

 

[Nick M]

According to Peter in Acts, why was Christ raised from the dead? According to Paul, why was Christ raised from the dead? Why won't you answer?

Because Paul said nothing about sitting on David's throne.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So you are arguing that there are two gospels of God now?

The "good news" or gospel which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period is the truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those who believed that gospel were saved when they believed it (John 20:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

The "good news" or gospel which was preached to the Gentiles concerned the "purpose" of the Lord Jesus' death--that He died for our sins. And those who believe that are saved the moment when they believe (1 Cor.15:1-3).

 

[Dialogos]

:bang:

His sacrifice was once for all, but they were not cleansed of future sins, as you showed with a verse stating their past sins were forgiven.:dunce::duh:

:nono:

For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 ESV)
​

Peter was reminding them of their past sins being forgiven not proclaiming that their future sins were not.

Christians have their past sins forgiven, that doesn't mean that our future sins are not also forgiven.

No, I'm just annoying you.

You don't have to work at being annoying Lighthouse and your being a heretic doesn't really affect me, but it sure does you.

 

[Dialogos]

Now compare Israel enduring to the end.

Compared to the body of Christ which must also endure in faith to the end (1 Cor 15:2)?

And thanks for outing yourself a vile pervert.

LOL....

Nick, doesn't TOL have enough drama queens, why do you insist on joining them.

We are not saved by our allegiance to a duty (faith), we are saved by his.

We are saved by grace through faith...

The faithless are not saved (Rev 21:8).

 

[Nick M]

We are saved by grace through faith...

And not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

As Saint John W the Great would say.... you are clueless as to what happened 2000 years ago and why.