Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

Dialogos

Well-known member
Repentance. Admitting guilt and to stop sinning, water baptism as a ceremonial cleansing because the sin was not gone. But it foreshadowed what was to come.

False dichotomy. Repentance is turning away from one's sin and turning toward Christ Who purchased their forgiveness by the shedding of His blood on the cross.

But if you think this is evidence of a different gospel than the one Paul preached, then explain to me why Paul is preaching Peter's gospel to greek philosophers at the Areopagus on Mars Hill.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Except that the book of Hebrews makes it abundantly clear that Jesus's sacrifice was once for all time.

And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Heb 10:10 ESV)​
The blotting out of Israel's sins is future!

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
The Holy Spirit gave Peter the vision so that Peter would go into the house of Cornelius and preach the gospel to him and to his family.

Right. To corroborate Paul's unique gospel. The meaning of it was hidden from them(the circumcision) until that moment. Acts 10 takes place several years after Acts 9.

There would be no need for the meeting in Acts 15 is Paul was in step with the others. But he was not. Why don't you just believe what it says?
 

Dialogos

Well-known member
The blotting out of Israel's sins is future!

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
If you followed the author's argument you would realize that he is referring to Jeremiah 31 and it becomes clear from by the time you finish reading chapter 10 that the author of Hebrews sees that scripture as fulfilled and the New Covenant inaugurated.

"For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds," 17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more." 18 Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin." (Heb 10:14-18 ESV)​

You said:
Heir said:
I don't have time for Bible rejectors.
I don't reject the bible, but Luke didn't write directly to the 1611 King Jimmy now did he?

Both the Textus Receptus and the Alexandrian texts have "ὅπως ἂν ἔλθωσιν καιροὶ ἀναψύξεως ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ κυρίου, at Act 3:19)

Bottom line: ὅπως doesn't mean "when." Feel free to look it up. It introduces a purpose clause.

The King James has it wrong here.

BTW, the King James has it wrong in many places, I don't worship the translators of the King James.

Finally, you refused to answer my question.

Why is Paul preaching the wrong gospel at Mars Hill?
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Why is Paul preaching the wrong gospel at Mars Hill?
I see Paul preaching the same thing he began preaching in the synagogue of the Jews: the gospel of God.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.



Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

As far as those at Mar's Hill being established in the faith, I'm not sure if they were.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
If you followed the author's argument you would realize that he is referring to Jeremiah 31 and it becomes clear from by the time you finish reading chapter 10 that the author of Hebrews sees that scripture as fulfilled and the New Covenant inaugurated.
The NC is future for Israel as is their blotting out of sins. The fountain has yet to be opened unto them.

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
 

Dialogos

Well-known member
I see Paul preaching the same thing he began preaching in the synagogue of the Jews: the gospel of God.

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Good point!

Nothing about Christ dying for our sins.

So by your argument...

Heir said:
NO MENTION "how that Christ died for our sins".

It is definitely NOT the same gospel Paul preached!
Paul did not preach Paul's gospel in Acts 17 at all, neither in the synagogue nor at Mars Hill.

So which gospel did Paul preach in Acts 17? The gospel of the circumcision? Maybe a third gospel?


Heir said:
As far as those at Mar's Hill being established in the faith, I'm not sure if they were.
"But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them." (Act 17:34 ESV)

It sure looks like some of them got saved, no?
 

Dialogos

Well-known member
That is not what he said. He said go an sin no more. Israel had to endure to the end.
And so must those who received the gospel from Paul.

"The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; if we are faithless, bhe remains faithful-- for he cannot deny himself."
(2Ti 2:11-13 ESV)
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Good point!

Nothing about Christ dying for our sins.

So by your argument...


Paul did not preach Paul's gospel in Acts 17 at all, neither in the synagogue nor at Mars Hill.

So which gospel did Paul preach in Acts 17? The gospel of the circumcision? Maybe a third gospel?
I already showed you that he preached the gospel of God.

"But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them." (Act 17:34 ESV)

It sure looks like some of them got saved, no?
Believed is a faith, but it's unclear if it was the mutual faith both of Paul and them. It is not unheard of in the Bible (or even today for that matter) to have a faith, but not the mutual faith of Paul. Read Romans 1!
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Paul's first order during Acts was to preach the gospel of God.


Acts 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Acts 9:21 But all that heard him were amazed, and said; Is not this he that destroyed them which called on this name in Jerusalem, and came hither for that intent, that he might bring them bound unto the chief priests?

Acts 9:22 But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ.


It was his manner. See more:

Acts 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.


1 Thessalonians 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.


1 Thessalonians 2:7 But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children:

1 Thessalonians 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.

1 Thessalonians 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.

And though the dispensation of the gospel was committed unto Paul (1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV) it wasn't necessarily Paul (he was hindered 1 Thessalonians 2:18 KJV), but at times fellowlabourers in the gospel of Christ that would be sent back to establish the believer into the Body. Notice:


1 Thessalonians 3:1 Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone;

1 Thessalonians 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

There is only one gospel that stablishes one in the faith, in the Body and that is Paul's "my gospel"!

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

The gospel of Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
Gold Subscriber
Hall of Fame
I already showed you that he preached the gospel of God.

Believed is a faith, but it's unclear if it was the mutual faith both of Paul and them. It is not unheard of in the Bible (or even today for that matter) to have a faith, but not the mutual faith of Paul. Read Romans 1!
They interrupted him, so of course he didn't get to the point. Those who followed him to hear more were the ones who heard more. Dialogos is an idiot who lacks the ability to comprehend what he reads.
 

Dialogos

Well-known member
I already showed you that he preached the gospel of God.
I see, so the same gospel of God that Peter preached then?

" For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1Pe 4:17 ESV)

So much for the two gospel theory.

heir said:
Believed is a faith, but it's unclear if it was the mutual faith both of Paul and them. It is not unheard of in the Bible (or even today for that matter) to have a faith, but not the mutual faith of Paul. Read Romans 1!
Great chapter, and another one of those chapters that disprove the false distinction made by the MAD theologians.

Paul was set apart for the "Gospel of God" (Romans 1:1), and Peter called the Galatians to the obedience of the "Gospel of God" (1 Peter 4:17).

Two guys preaching the same gospel.
 

Dialogos

Well-known member
They interrupted him, so of course he didn't get to the point.
They interrupted Peter in Acts 2 as well, you moron.

Lighthouse said:
Those who followed him to hear more were the ones who heard more.
Said Lighthouse, adding to God's word.

Lighthouse said:
Dialogos is an idiot who lacks the ability to comprehend what he reads.
Lighthouse is a monophysite heretic, a non-believer and a teacher of a false Jesus.

I'm not sure you add much to conversations among Christians about theology Lighthouse because you aren't one yet.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Two guys preaching the same gospel.
Let's test that. What did Peter say Christ was raised from the dead for in Acts 2? And now, what did Paul say was the reason God raised Him from the dead?

If those things are different, they are not the same.
 
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