Right Divider
Body part
You heretics always like to ADD to the Word of God.
Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Right Divider
Body part
You're a magician that can just mold the Word of God into anything that you like. Start believing it as written instead.
The WORD WAS GOD is crystal clear and CANNOT be changed.
There is one true God. He has never experienced death.
Our Father is the one true God.
keypurr
Well-known member
He is the ONLY true God.
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus is God and is just as true as His Father.
keypurr
Well-known member
You just proved my point, thanks. There are reasons to spend forty dollars to learn more than the Greek teaches JR. The NOTES in the AENT are priceless. Don't settle for cheap Greek to English translations. If you really want truth, seek it it many places.
keypurr
Well-known member
Nope, he has a God and there is only one true God, his Father.
Why do you not believe the words of the master?
My Father is greater than all.
Keypurr, the things you underlined are things YOU have to demonstrate! Can't you read?
The disciples are known to have spoken Greek. You have to show they didn't.
The authors of the NT are known to have spoken greek. You have to show they did not.
You also have to do the other four things in that list.
Fix your formatting. Please.
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus is God. In THAT sense his Father is not greater.
You simply do not understand CONTEXT.
The unbeliever in that passage are smarter than you.
Joh 10:29-33 KJV My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (30) I and my Father are one. (31) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. (32) Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? (33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
They understood Jesus' claim to be God, but you do not.
keypurr
Well-known member
I beg to differ, I understand content quite well.
There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ has a God.
You refuse to see that. The trinity is false. The Apostles did not teach it, neither did Christ.
To make Jesus God is blasphemy. Jesus was a MAN, a creation. Col 1:15.
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus is BOTH God and Man.
With REFERENCE to His HUMANITY, He has a God. But He is STILL GOD HIMSELF.
Why did Jesus not call Thomas a blasphemer?
Because Thomas was correct.
Joh 20:28-29 KJV And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (29) Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Note the lack of correction for this supposed "blasphemy".
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yep!
Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Colossians 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
...
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Anyone who says otherwise is a devil.
You refuse to accept the validity of John's Gospel even though you know the truth.
John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
:nono:
Rosenritter
New member
I'm not sure I understand: do you mean that God was going to judge the unrighteous judges that held power, but he changed his mind as to how this judgment would be fulfilled after the Psalm was written? I have always understood this Psalm in the context of the Judgment, because it seems fairly obvious that this is not the time that the unjust judges receive judgment.
I understand if you maintain a distinction based on technicality, but the scripture does identify Jesus as the Word. It's a specific name introduced by John (for example John 1:1, John 1:14, 1 John 1:1, 1 John 5:7, Revelation 19:13) and as such I don't think it's incorrect to apply this name with hindsight. For example, Justin Martyr demonstrated that the name "Jesus" was revealed as the name of God in Exodus 23:21, where God specifically changed the name of Oshea to Joshua (Numbers 13:8, 16) and then declared "my name is in him."
Revelation 19:13 KJV
(13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Good answer.
Surely you don't mean that Jesus was "channeling" God so his words referring to himself don't count? But let's look at the pronouns in the passage?
John 2:19-22 KJV
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
(22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
"I will" has to agree with "he" between verses 19 and 21, and verse 21 uses "he" and "his body" in a way that can only apply to Jesus. If God was speaking in verse 19 (with which I agree) then we also have proof that the body of Jesus was the body of God from verse 21.
But if you have that type of explanation, why wouldn't that same reasoning work for everything else that Jesus said as well, including each and every declaration that he made that made himself equal to God in name and title and authority? Actually, that's leads to the point that every word of Jesus was the word of God ... because Jesus was the form of God in the flesh.
Then why didn't Peter say "Whom God hath raised up... because he had done no sin?" He actually said that it wasn't possible that he could be held by death. May we consider the possibility that Peter meant this in its literal sense?
Especially considering that he is also speaking in the context of David (the Psalmist) and the events described in Psalm 22 and Psalm 23 (the crucifixion and the valley of death). The 24th Psalm speaks of he who will ascend the hill of the Lord, and goes to specific effort to identify the King of Glory as the LORD.
Who shall ascend the hill of the LORD? (verse 3) and "lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in" (verse 6). Who shall ascend and stand in his holy place (verse 3) and "Who is this King of glory?" (verse 8). Where else do you see a fulfillment of God ascending into his own Heaven, and why would it describe him as "receiving the blessing from the LORD" (verse 5?)
So far I have heard reasoning that seems to include:
1) God speaks of himself but it is fulfilled in Jesus
2) Jesus speaks of himself but it was actually God speaking instead
3) Jesus uses the specific identifying names and titles of God which cannot be shared with another... but it's OK because he represents God.
There seems to be a far simpler explanation: Jesus was literally God in the flesh. You must have some reason (or reasons) why you are taking the the complicated route over the simpler explanation... may I take a guess here and ask a couple questions?
Q1: Is it possible for God to be manifest in the flesh? Upon the earth, with two feet and two hands and eyes etc? Or is this beyond his power?
Q2: Is it possible for God to be in more than one place at a time? I take for granted that we agree that he can hear thousands of prayers at once, but do you limit him to one specific point in space at any given time?
A couple more questions, back on the subject of "how old is Jesus?"
Luke 10:17-18 KJV
(17) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
(18) And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Q3: How does "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven" explain why even the devils are subject to his name?
Q4: Can you think of anyplace in scripture where the age of Jesus was directly questioned?
Rosenritter
New member
Zechariah 12:10 KJV
(10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Rosenritter
New member
Ever heard the expression, "I have some beachfront property in Kansas I can sell you too?" Other than promoting your strange idea that Jesus was possessed by a Spirit Son, why would anyone consider your AENT as anything more than another Golden Gate Bridge for sale?
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Greetings again Rosenritter,
Kind regards
Trevor
I do not believe that God changed his mind. Many of the Psalms and Prophecies had a contemporary setting, and were partially fulfilled at or soon after the words were spoken or written. These Psalms and Prophecies are then the framework of future things, and some of the details are more applicable to the final fulfilment. For example Isaiah 53 has some fulfilment in Hezekiah and his time, but the real fulfilment is in the sufferings, crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus.
I do not believe that Jesus existed before he was born. Joshua and his name are a pattern of Jesus, not Jesus himself. After the birth and development of Jesus he was the Word of God, full of grace and truth. Another way of saying this is that the Word became flesh. There is a continuity flowing from God, but there is a development, and the process was God becoming the father of Jesus, he was the only begotten of the Father, while Mary was his mother. This is how the Word was made flesh.
I appreciate your examination of my suggestion and will put this on hold. Nevertheless, I believe that when Jesus was dead, he was dead and will need to consider a better answer.
No, God raised him, and I will hold to the fact that God’s righteousness necessitated that he be raised. God’s love for His Son is the other compelling reason. I find your comments on Psalm 24 obscure, and your comments on the age of Jesus also seem obscure. Jesus started his ministry when he was 30 years old.
Kind regards
Trevor
Rosenritter
New member
OK, we agree that "channeling" God to resolve "I will raise it up" doesn't sound right. I respect the request for "on hold."
John 8:56-59 KJV
(56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
(57) Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Exodus 3:14 KJV
(14) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Jesus started his ministry when he was about thirty years old as men would count from the birth in Bethlehem... but when they questioned his age as to how he could possibly know Abraham, he answered, "Before Abraham was, I am." They knew what he meant. When they picked up stones they always knew what he meant. Jesus didn't just go about making random statements that connected with scripture by accident.
And now we can see why his name gave the disciples power over demons in the context of "I beheld Satan fall like lightning from heaven." (Luke 10:18). His name had power because not only was he there, but because he had cast them down to earth in the first place.