Is elohiym an idiot?

[elohiym]

Yeesh, I was on your side...

Funny how that happens. :chuckle:

 

[PKevman]

No. I have spent hours on this thread, and have contributed constructively for 32 pages.

Maybe in your prideful view of yourself they were constructive. Just as the Pharisees thought everything they did was constructive. You are just like the Pharisees in your self-righteousness.

Just because you suddenly feel like making an argument you think is good doesn't mean that I have to abandon my responsibilities as a father and husband to answer you.

It seemed the conversation was finally getting back to discussing the issues instead of the silly bait and dodge, misrepresent, and ad-hom and falsely accuse tactics you had been using for the bulk of this thread as it relates to your conversation with me. As far as what YOU said about "abandoning your responsibilities as a father and a husband" I would never encourage anyone to do that. In fact I would say if it were at that point you should walk away from TOL. Nothing should cause you to abandon those critical responsibilities. I was merely commenting on the fact that from your post it appeared as if you were doing exactly what you have done before and claiming you were going to leave. Thus by the statement "I'll see you when I see you". I wasn't the only person that took your statement that way, as Knight obviously did as well.

As I recall, it was you that ran away yesterday from this thread to avoid answering a post you still have not responded to.

Wow what a hypocrite you are. I never run away from anything, nor do you find me saying I am leaving TOL and then coming back a little while later. You have a history of doing this, so you obviously think everyone thinks like you do. Well guess what, not everyone is as warped as you are Elohiym. And not everyone uses COWARDLY tactics to avoid discussing issues. I had stuff to do yesterday as I do every day. I post on here as I have time, some days more than others. Get a life!

Tell you what: let's see how long it takes you to run away from this thread.

Guess your tactic hasn't worked because I'm here, still exposing you for the hypocrite and the fool that you are.

The last question you asked me was answered by E4E. I agree with his answer, "no." Address his response if you have a point to make.

Are you man enough to answer yourself? And then you demand me to answer your questions? I will answer your questions, not rely on Knight or someone else to answer them for me. But the record will reflect and anyone reading this thread will see that you did not afford me the same respect of answering the difficult questions I have presented to you. Why do you suppose that is? Because you are holding onto false teaching with your hands gripped tightly around it. And anytime someone threatens that false teaching you get angry and upset.

Now, you answer my questions, or run away...

:singer:

1. Do you commit adultery?

No.

2. Will you commit adultery in the future?

I have no plans to, nor desire to do so. You have to remember that Jesus made it clear that to look on a woman with lust in your heart is also adultery. I have asked you before and YOU NEVER RESPONDED if you have looked a woman with lust in your heart since you became a Christian. Will I look on a woman with lust in my heart at some time in the future? I certainly hope not! I don't have that struggle anymore in my life, although I once did as a young Christian. But God has helped me grow through that. And you know who my biggest helper and source of support through that struggle was? (outside of the Lord of course) My own wife. I confided in her and shared those things with her.
I will also say right now that if you say anything further derogatory about my relationship with my wife in your response I will demand your banning from TOL. It may not be heeded but I can tell you that you will be crossing over the line if you do that. I have been open and transparent here. Don't take the coward's approach in your response.

Will you or do you Elohiym commit adultery against your wife by lusting in your heart after another woman? Have you ever done so since you became a Christian? Please note that God and others are reading your responses. Since I have been transparent with you you could be honest and be transparent as well.
If you say you don't, never have, and never will then you are being dishonest.

3. Are you capable of committing adultery now?

Yes. Any man is, whether he is a Christian or not.

4. If you are capable of committing adultery, explain why.

Because I am a man. And men are not perfect. Are you a man Elohiym? Are you perfect Elohiym?

5. If you are not capable of committing adultery, explain why.

Irrelevant. Already answered to the question.

6. If you do commit adultery, will you inherit the Kingdom of God? 1 Cor 6:9-11

People are not saved by works but by faith. Salvation is not gained or lost based upon the things we do! If I committed adultery on my wife, I would need to repent to her and make things right with her, and if not I would lose my wife. This is not something that I ever want to do, so I have committed not to commit adultery.

I'll be waiting for you to reply, PK. Make sure your wife reads your response.

She is welcome to and I'll tell her about it. She finds people like you to be repulsive however, so you may not like the response you get from her.

 

[P8ntrDan]

Funny how that happens. :chuckle:

Yeah. :doh:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

4. Explain what Paul meant in 1 Cor 6:9-11. What is your brief interpretation of that text?

Paul explains that people who do the following types of things are not righteous (these are the behaviors that often differentiate them). You might say these things are their calling cards, their fruit (so to speak).

1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. ​

In fact, many of the Christians Paul is addressing were once that way themselves but now they are saved and washed of their past sins....

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. ​

Yet many of these Christians are once again engaging in sexual immorality....

1 Corinthians 6:15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. ​

Paul urges his brethren to stop sinning....

1Corinthians 6:18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.​

Paul pleads with his brethren to stop their sinful behavior because their liberty was bought at a price and they shouldn't be abusing it...

1Corinthians 6:20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s. ​

In summary... Paul describes the awful behavior that the lost often demonstrate and then pleads with his brethren to not engage in similar behaviors.

I have no idea why you would use this as a proof text because it obliterates your position.

 

[elyah]

Yeesh, I was on your side...

My mistake and apology, I was on a roll, .. and unfortunately rolled over you too... sorry. So I'll shut up now.

 

[elected4ever]

Stop with your pseudo sympathy, I'll take two of BillyBob's "in your face bias," to your supposed concern for the Jew! The evidence of your chilling spiritual impudence, saturates your words!

When you come of you pride kick we can talk. But not till then.

 

[elected4ever]

He doesn't want to write out the name of God since it could then be either thrown away, burned, etc. Or do you think it is respectful to allow the possibility of destruction to happen to His moniker?

Then he is doing it for himself and not God. That is self exalting and not God exalting. It is just self grandisement.

 

[elyah]

* (*)*

 

[elyah]

When you come of you pride kick we can talk. But not till then.

Don't trouble yourself, go your way!

 

[elected4ever]

Don't trouble yourself, go your way!

I will. You are to busy honoring the dead and not the living. Let the dead bury the dead but you follow Christ.

 

[elyah]

Originally Posted by P8ntrDan
He doesn't want to write out the name of God since it could then be either thrown away, burned, etc. Or do you think it is respectful to allow the possibility of destruction to happen to His moniker?

Then he is doing it for himself and not God. That is self exalting and not God exalting. It is just self grandisement..... Then he is doing it for himself and not God. That is self exalting and not God exalting. It is just self grandisement.

So even here where humility may have lead you to a different assessment, your pride has swallowed you whole.

 

[elected4ever]

So even here where humility may have lead you to a different assessment, your pride has swallowed you whole.

Humility?You don't know the meaning of the word. Do You?

 

[elyah]

I will. You are to busy honoring the dead and not the living. Let the dead bury the dead but you follow Christ.

It is Abrahym, Yitzsac and Yacoub that I honor and Hakodesh Borahu's promises to them that he ratifies in the person of the Mashiach... to them and he I bind myself. Israal is not dead, foolish one, ... if Israal were dead and done with G-d's Words would be untrust-worthy...
and the Yshua Mashiach would be of no worth..

 

[elohiym]

Knight,

Any particular reason why you didn't answer questions 1-3? Do you commit murder? Do you commit adultery? Do you steal? I can answer "no" to all those questions, but you seem to be avoiding answering. :think:

Regarding 1 Cor 6:9-11:

Paul explains that people who do the following types of things are not righteous (these are the behaviors that often differentiate them). You might say these things are their calling cards, their fruit (so to speak).

Therefore, you concede that people who behave as murderers, adulterers, and thieves are not righteous. Since it is clear that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God according to Paul's words, it is evident that a person who engages in such behavior is not born of God and not saved.

Everything else you say is irrelevant, unless you believe that Paul was telling them that were saved even if they continued in such behavior. Is that what you believe? If not then you have conceded the debate. Either they could lose their salvation (not inherit the Kingdom of God) for engaging in such behavior, or they were never saved while they engaging in such behavior. There are no other options, Knight. Either I am correct, or Paul believed that salvation must be maintained by works.

Paul urges his brethren to stop sinning....

Yup! Because the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Do you murder, commit adultery or steal? :think:

Paul pleads with his brethren to stop their sinful behavior because their liberty was bought at a price and they shouldn't be abusing it...

No. He pleads with them because, as he stated plainly, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

In summary... Paul describes the awful behavior that the lost often demonstrate and then pleads with his brethren to not engage in similar behaviors.

Because those who engage in that awful behavior are unrighteous, as you already conceded, and the unrighteous aren't saved.

I have no idea why you would use this as a proof text because it obliterates your position.

Because you will now either concede the debate, or you will argue that they were saved while being unrighteous (a license to sin).

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Either they could lose their salvation (not inherit the Kingdom of God) for engaging in such behavior, or they were never saved while they engaging in such behavior. There are no other options, Knight. Either I am correct, or Paul believed that salvation must be maintained by works.

I already explained the verse (as if it needed explaining) I am not going to repeat myself.

You are a moron that couldn't understand a bible verse if it bounced off your thick skull.

Because those who engage in that awful behavior are unrighteous, as you already conceded, and the unrighteous aren't saved.

Paul is warning the Corinthians to not do as the unrighteous do (specifically engage in sexual immorality).

The entire set of verses could be summed up as follows....

Unrighteous people engage in sexual immorality, therefore those of us in the body should flee sexual immorality because it is what the unrighteous do and it is harmful to the body.

Paul summed it up the exact same way I just did....

All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. - 1 Corinthians 6:12​

Later in the chapter Paul states....

But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. - 1 Corinthians 8:12 ​

It would be impossible to sin against the brethren if the brethren couldn't sin.

Because you will now either concede the debate, or you will argue that they were saved while being unrighteous (a license to sin).

I will do no such thing and anyone reading this thread can decide for themselves who is more accurately portraying Paul's words.

:thumb:

 

[elected4ever]

I think Knight is unjustly assaulted here. The question that has been ask is completely out of context in which it is presented in the text. If one continues then one will see the point Paul is raising. To ask a question like that and expect to receive anything but a speculative answer is disingenuous at best. Paul was addressing the practicing of law before a court and not presenting the case before the church for proper judgement. I am compelled at this point to put the text here so one may discern what Paul is saying.

1 Corinthians 6:1 ¶Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
9 ¶Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
12 ¶All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[Stripe]

If Knight booted people off TOL for being idiots there wouldn't be many people left to post and build content on his website.

:rotfl: what was your definition of idiot again?

 

[elected4ever]

:rotfl: what was your definition of idiot again?

Stripe, let's change the flavor or tone of this debate. We can be civil. Lets build each other up and stop degrading one another to boost our ego.. I think I have done too much of that myself. The temptation is there I know and it is sometimes fun but lets try to change things a little.

 

[elohiym]

2. Will you commit adultery in the future?

I have no plans to, nor desire to do so.

I think it is sad you cannot just answer "no" with confidence. My wife knows that it is impossible for me to ever commit adultery.

I'm curious why you don't have the desire to do commit adultery. Can you explain that?

You have to remember that Jesus made it clear that to look on a woman with lust in your heart is also adultery.

I don't think you understand what Jesus actually meant by his statement, and you're probably reading into it your own subjective moral code.

When David saw Bathsheba, before he knew she was Uriah's wife, he was obviously very attracted to her. His lust began, not with his attraction, but after he learned she was another man's wife and desired to take her for himself.

I have asked you before and YOU NEVER RESPONDED if you have looked a woman with lust in your heart since you became a Christian. Will I look on a woman with lust in my heart at some time in the future?

Since I was born of God I haven't lusted after another man's wife, and never will. I have looked at, and will look at pretty women; and I will always look at pretty women and be aroused by them; and I thank God that he made women so beautiful. God made me that way so I would "be fruitful and multiply." God gave David all his wives and an attraction for all of them before and after he married them. He was only at fault for lusting after and taking another man's wife.

The problem I see with many is that they have labeled God given attraction for the opposite sex as lust or sin, which is a false doctrine. They end up believing they commit adultery all the time, or actually commit adultery if they believe they have a license to sin.

I don't have that struggle anymore in my life, although I once did as a young Christian. But God has helped me grow through that.

Now help me understand what you mean exactly. Do you not find any other women but your wife attractive, or does your statement relate to lack of desire to commit adultery now? Again, help me to understand why you no longer have that desire.

I think if you can explain that, then you will understand what I mean by a converted heart, and know why I doubt you will ever be able to commit adultery in the future.

And you know who my biggest helper and source of support through that struggle was? (outside of the Lord of course) My own wife. I confided in her and shared those things with her.

That's why marriage is such a blessing. Good for you! I have had a similar experience.

Will you or do you Elohiym commit adultery against your wife by lusting in your heart after another woman? Have you ever done so since you became a Christian?

I answered you above, and that answer is "no." My wife reads these threads often. I'm an open book to her.

If you say you don't, never have, and never will then you are being dishonest.

If that is true, what does it say about your claim that you don't commit adultery now? As for my past, I was an adulterer in my first marriage, multiple times. So now: no. Past: yes--many times. Future: not a chance.

3. Are you capable of committing adultery now?

Yes. Any man is, whether he is a Christian or not.

Jesus wasn't. See this is where we disagree. It has to do with why you don't desire to commit adultery now, what is motivating you now. If it self-righteousness, then you just want to be praised for your right choices, and in time you will commit adultery (not can but will). If it is the Holy Spirit which dwells in you that is constraining you (love), and I'm sure you love your wife, then I will bet that you NEVER can possibly commit adultery again. And out of curiosity, if either one of the options could be true, which one would you hope was true. We both know the answer to that, and that is exactly what your merciful heavenly Father has done for you.

4. If you are capable of committing adultery, explain why.

Because I am a man. And men are not perfect. Are you a man Elohiym? Are you perfect Elohiym?

The Bible actually describes several perfect men, PK. Job was perfect (Job 1:8), Noah was perfect (Gen 6:9), Enoch, etc. They were not perfect in the flesh. They were perfect in spirit. Similarly, I am not perfect in flesh, but perfect in spirit. My flesh is sinful, but I am sinless, because I am born of God.

People are not saved by works but by faith. Salvation is not gained or lost based upon the things we do!

Salvation is based on righteousness, and adulterers are not righteous. They are unrighteous. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul was very clear, and he said "be not deceived." The things you do are evidence of belief or unbelief. One's heart (not flesh) acts in accordance with one's nature.

If I committed adultery on my wife, I would need to repent to her and make things right with her, and if not I would lose my wife. This is not something that I ever want to do, so I have committed not to commit adultery.

Why do you have to commit to not commit adultery. I simply love my wife with all my converted heart, and it is not my new nature to hurt her or break my covenant with her. Don't you think the capacity to love, you received by the Holy Spirit, is powerful enough to bridle your flesh? If it isn't powerful enough to do that, why do you think it will be powerful enough to raise the dead?

 

[elected4ever]

I think it is sad you cannot just answer "no" with confidence. My wife knows that it is impossible for me to ever commit adultery.

I'm curious why you don't have the desire to do commit adultery. Can you explain that?

I don't think you understand what Jesus actually meant by his statement, and you're probably reading into it your own subjective moral code.

When David saw Bathsheba, before he knew she was Uriah's wife, he was obviously very attracted to her. His lust began, not with his attraction, but after he learned she was another man's wife and desired to take her for himself.
Since I was born of God I haven't lusted after another man's wife, and never will. I have looked at, and will look at pretty women; and I will always look at pretty women and be aroused by them; and I thank God that he made women so beautiful. God made me that way so I would "be fruitful and multiply." God gave David all his wives and an attraction for all of them before and after he married them. He was only at fault for lusting after and taking another man's wife.

The problem I see with many is that they have labeled God given attraction for the opposite sex as lust or sin, which is a false doctrine. They end up believing they commit adultery all the time, or actually commit adultery if they believe they have a license to sin.

Now help me understand what you mean exactly. Do you not find any other women but your wife attractive, or does your statement relate to lack of desire to commit adultery now? Again, help me to understand why you no longer have that desire.

I think if you can explain that, then you will understand what I mean by a converted heart, and know why I doubt you will ever be able to commit adultery in the future.

That's why marriage is such a blessing. Good for you! I have had a similar experience.
I answered you above, and that answer is "no." My wife reads these threads often. I'm an open book to her.
If that is true, what does it say about your claim that you don't commit adultery now? As for my past, I was an adulterer in my first marriage, multiple times. So now: no. Past: yes--many times. Future: not a chance.

3. Are you capable of committing adultery now?
Jesus wasn't. See this is where we disagree. It has to do with why you don't desire to commit adultery now, what is motivating you now. If it self-righteousness, then you just want to praised for your right choices, and in time you will commit adultery (not can but will). If it is the Holy Spirit which dwells in you that is constraining you (love), and I'm sure you love your wife, then I will bet that you NEVER can possibly commit adultery again. And out of curiosity, if either one of the options could be true, which one would you hope was true. We both know the answer to that, and that is exactly what your merciful heavenly Father has done for you.
The Bible actually describes several perfect men, PK. Job was perfect (Job 1:8), Noah was perfect (Gen 6:9), Enoch, etc. They were not perfect in the flesh. They were perfect in spirit. Similarly, I am not perfect in flesh, but perfect in spirit. My flesh is sinful, but I am sinless, because I am born of God.

Salvation is based on righteousness, and adulterers are not righteous. They are unrighteous. The unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul was very clear, and he said "be not deceived." The things you do are evidence of belief or unbelief. One's heart (not flesh) acts in accordance with one's nature.
Why do you have to commit to not commit adultery. I simply love my wife with all my heart, and it is not my nature to hurt her or break my covenant with her. Don't you think the capacity to love you received by the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to bridle you flesh? If it isn't powerful enough to do that, why do you think it will be powerful enough to raise the dead?

Here in lies the problem. You seem to think that the new birth eliminates the human birth. If it did then there would be no need of the resurrection. This is what it sounds like even if it is not your intent. Even when it is not your intent today to do such things there is no guarantee that it may not occur sometime in the future. The word says Let him who standeth take heed lest he fall. Lets not become to arrogant with our selves and think that we have total control of all needs and desires. Our reliance upon the Lord is an absolute must. So be careful with your control of your self will. If you do not understand that it is my prayer that you never find out the hard way.