Eagles Wings
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But, we stand as one against anti-Trinitarian heresy.
How the Gospel Works
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
False Gospel and comments !
God's Truth
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Right. You are like half siblings.
You both argue who obeys God the least.
Jesus says believe and obey.
Faith only says: "No, I will believe in you but I will not obey until after you save me".
Calvinists say: "No, I cannot believe and obey you until you first save me".
Unbelievable.
musterion
Well-known member
You obey less than anyone on TOL because of your lying insistence that you obey Him more and better than anyone on TOL. Lying is never, ever obedience to a holy God.
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b57 is Fake News
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why on earth would it need to be an either or proposition? I certainly don't see it that way. God's desire is that we all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. This one verse alone disproves what you claim.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
musterion
Well-known member
I met a Calvinist once who signed loudly and rolled his eyes when I brought that up. He never did address it though. :think:
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Gospel seems to get the same reaction.
Do you think it was pre-determined that he should be a mute?
musterion
Well-known member
No doubt there was some weasel running on a gerbil wheel in his brain generating excuses for him to say nothing.
musterion
Well-known member
Of course it does, since TULIP is the gospel donchaknow.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Nah, say it isn't so.
Lon
Well-known member
Yes, a glass darkly, but 'no' not out of His will. To me, it is a dichotomy akin to a rock God cannot pick up. In it, the definition of 'will' is different AND incidentally, why we Calvinists get slammed.
James Hilston, not a Calvinist (MAD in fact), believes this and argues it well and logically. He has a good article on this well worth reading several times concerning God's will, prescriptive and declarative. He has this condensed in his JamesHilston.com blog somewhere. It was easier when it was Googlable and linked in his sig. RC Sproul addresses this in about ten articles. He is a Calvinist, but again, this is not a specifically Calvinist doctrine. I have read several who are MAD express exactly the same.
The parable of the wheat and tares describes a need for God to enact both His plan, and His plan amidst a foreign influence: Tares in His field. As such, He 'prescribes' that the angels do nothing to harm the tares, that no wheat should suffer. God then ordains that His wheat (us) are the important and cherished, and to be brought to fruition against what He desired. The 'autonomy' of man, I believe, is the result of this hands-off approach. It isn't a gift, but ordained in that it must proceed until the end of the harvest.
It is wrong for us to be among weeds. Romans 8:28 assures us God has our best interests. While 'hands-off' is the directive to angels, we are very secure in His hands. All wheat are His and He will not lose one of them.
Hilston and AMR have both addressed God's Decretive and Prescriptive will. Though 1 is a Calvinist, and the other MAD, they both say nearly the identical thing, both even referring to one another over the matter. Therefore, it is not a Calvinist specific doctrine. It needs to be investigated as the biblical expression it is. Even when I disagree with Hilston, I have a very hard time defying his logic. He is one of the better thinkers, not just on TOL.
musterion
Well-known member
It ain't but some folk have it in their sigs and ev'rything.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Well, they talk about TULIP more than they talk about the Gospel of Salvation. So....
musterion
Well-known member
I genuinely like you Lon, I hope you know that, but I could not care less what anyone says on this particular topic. Want to know why? God CANNOT will anyone to do that which He condemns and THEN blame them for "choosing" to do it.
Titus 1:2
Heb 6:18
1 Sam 15:29
Page after page of thread upon thread to the contrary count for NOTHING against that.
The good and bad live together, and the sun shines on the just and the unjust alike.
But hasn't it already been ordained exactly who the wheat and tares are per GOD's will?
Are not both the wheat and tares being exactly as GOD planned for them to be at any given point in their life?
Fruition of what???
How can anything that happens be against what GOD desired if it was GOD that ordained it to happen that way?
What does that mean?
What is "this hands-off approach"?
What isn't a gift?
What proceeds until the end of the harvest?
Are you talking about the wheat and tares growing together till the harvest?
If so, the wheat and tares are being exactly what GOD ordained them to be and it would be impossible for them to ever be anything but what GOD has programmed, by His election and non-election, them to be.
Neither the wheat or the tares could ever be guilty of opposing GOD's will because they are exactly as GOD desired to ordain them to be before they were ever born.
