How Many Would Vote to Have The Laws Reversed To Outlaw acts Of Homosexuality

[csuguy]

Should we point those outside to Christ, and their need for Him?

Of course! But Christ wants people to come as they are. It is foolishness to make them conform to our standards prior to them becoming part of the body. Its not like those in the body are perfect either, they still sin. It is not counted as sin because we are under the NC, but under the OC our actions would be sinful.

 

[Cracked]

I am in Christ, and in Him there is no sin.

Stone away big guy, I'll have no part in it.

1 John 1:8

 

[csuguy]

Stone away big guy, I'll have no part in it.

1 John 1:8

:thumb:

 

[Delmar]

Actually, the stuff concerning homosexuality is found in the Old Testament, not the New.

Not all of it.

 

[csuguy]

Not all of it.

All that I've seen. What scriptures in the NT directly deal with homosexuality?

 

[Delmar]

All that I've seen. What scriptures in the NT directly deal with homosexuality?

Romans 1, but I'm pretty sure if I have you sized up correctly, you are going to deny this has anything to do with homosex.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

 

[The Barbarian]

Paul refers to it as a punishment, not a sin. If you want to maintain that it's sinful (and I believe it is) you'll have to find something better.

 

[Lighthouse]

Of course! But Christ wants people to come as they are. It is foolishness to make them conform to our standards prior to them becoming part of the body. Its not like those in the body are perfect either, they still sin. It is not counted as sin because we are under the NC, but under the OC our actions would be sinful.

Sin is not counted against us only if we are under grace. Those who are not in Christ are not under grace.:nono: they are still under the law.

If we want them to know Christ we must judge that they are not in Him, and point out their sin to them, and show them that it is sin.

But I never said they had to conform to anything. I want them to come to Christ so they can be transformed, by the renewing of their minds.

Stone away big guy, I'll have no part in it.

1 John 1:8

I never said I had no sin. He has no sin, and I am in Him.

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
-1 John 3:5

See, I can quote 1John, too.

He has taken away my sin. And by saying those who commit certain acts for which God prescribed punishment in the here and now should receive those penalties I commit no sin. If the laws were as they should be and I brought forth a criminal whom I knew to be guilty and there were at least one other witness to the crime in some form [such as concrete evidence, or another trustworthy eyewitness] to the authorities in charge, and I brought them according to the law, I would in nowise be guilty of any criminal act or sin, even if I partook in the punishment process, i.e. if I stoned a murderer to death.

 

[Delmar]

Paul refers to it as a punishment, not a sin. If you want to maintain that it's sinful (and I believe it is) you'll have to find something better.

"God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts"

You are kidding right?

 

[The Barbarian]

So your argument is that God punished them, by making them sin?

Seriously?

 

[Cracked]

Sin is not counted against us only if we are under grace. Those who are not in Christ are not under grace.:nono: they are still under the law.

If we want them to know Christ we must judge that they are not in Him, and point out their sin to them, and show them that it is sin.

But I never said they had to conform to anything. I want them to come to Christ so they can be transformed, by the renewing of their minds.


I never said I had no sin. He has no sin, and I am in Him.

And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
-1 John 3:5

See, I can quote 1John, too.

He has taken away my sin. And by saying those who commit certain acts for which God prescribed punishment in the here and now should receive those penalties I commit no sin. If the laws were as they should be and I brought forth a criminal whom I knew to be guilty and there were at least one other witness to the crime in some form [such as concrete evidence, or another trustworthy eyewitness] to the authorities in charge, and I brought them according to the law, I would in nowise be guilty of any criminal act or sin, even if I partook in the punishment process, i.e. if I stoned a murderer to death.

I am with you on the whole Christ takes away the sins of the world thing - I get that. However, this does not mean that Christians cannot sin, it simply means that they are forgiven for it - it is not a license to condemn to death.

I am compelled to note that anyone who seriously condones the stoning to death of anyone is wholly misguided, and those that would stone homosexuals for a victimless "crime" are doubly so - to the extent that they expose themselves as true antichrists lacking any understanding of the basic meaning of love.

 

[Lighthouse]

I am with you on the whole Christ takes away the sins of the world thing - I get that. However, this does not mean that Christians cannot sin, it simply means that they are forgiven for it - it is not a license to condemn to death.

God condemns. We are only to carry out His commands.

I am compelled to note that anyone who seriously condones the stoning to death of anyone is wholly misguided, and those that would stone homosexuals for a victimless "crime" are doubly so - to the extent that they expose themselves as true antichrists lacking any understanding of the basic meaning of love.

So God was wholly misguided and an anti-Christ when He commanded the Israelites to do these things?

 

[Cracked]

So God was wholly misguided and an anti-Christ when He commanded the Israelites to do these things?

I was certain that someone would bring this up. You have to understand that, imo, revelation is progressive. The OT is inferior to the NT because the NT has a more perfect understanding of God in Jesus Christ.

As the law is inferior to grace, so do the punishments of the OT make way for the mercy of the NT.

For example:
Psalm 137:8-9, Psalm 58:10

gives way to:
Luke 18:16, Mathew 5:44

 

[Lighthouse]

I was certain that someone would bring this up. You have to understand that, imo, revelation is progressive. The OT is inferior to the NT because the NT has a more perfect understanding of God in Jesus Christ.

So God now has a better understanding than He did back then?

As the law is inferior to grace, so do the punishments of the OT make way for the mercy of the NT.

Who does God have mercy upon? Who does God forgive?

For example:
Psalm 137:8-9, Psalm 58:10

gives way to:
Luke 18:16, Mathew 5:44

First off, how does Luke 18:16 have anything to do with wrath or mercy?

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
-John 3:36

That's New Testament.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
-Romans 1:18-19

So is that.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
-Romans 13:1-7

And this, too.

 

[Cracked]

So God now has a better understanding than He did back then?


Who does God have mercy upon? Who does God forgive?


First off, how does Luke 18:16 have anything to do with wrath or mercy?

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
-John 3:36

That's New Testament.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
-Romans 1:18-19

So is that.

Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
-Romans 13:1-7

And this, too.

God doesn't change, our understanding of Him does.

 

[Lighthouse]

God doesn't change, our understanding of Him does.

Good dog. For your next trick are you going to set the hoop on fire before you jump through it?

 

[Cracked]

Good dog. For your next trick are you going to set the hoop on fire before you jump through it?

I take responsibility for my beliefs, the "God said" excuse doesn't really hold any water.

Just remember, you want to kill those caught in the homosexual act. If you did not, you would not and could not support this.

The Bible is a mirror...

 

[Lighthouse]

I take responsibility for my beliefs, the "God said" excuse doesn't really hold any water.

And it shouldn't. What you should ask is why God said it.

Just remember, you want to kill those caught in the homosexual act. If you did not, you would not and could not support this.

No I don't. I support this because I trust God knows better than I do. And because I have looked into the reasons God would command such.

The Bible is a mirror...

Yup. And I saw what a filthy, disgusting, degenerate person I am apart from Christ.