heir
TOL Subscriber
If they did repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, they did receive the the gift of the Holy Ghost. The flip side would be if they didn't they wouldn't. What does that have to do with what we are talking about?
ECT How is Paul's message different?
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
If they did repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, they did receive the the gift of the Holy Ghost. The flip side would be if they didn't they wouldn't. What does that have to do with what we are talking about?
A Jewish holiday? But the Most High God is not Jewish.
Speak to the children of Israel and say to them: "The feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts." (Leviticus 23:2 NKJV)
The Eternal said, "These are my feasts."
heir
TOL Subscriber
Yes, a Jewish Holy Day!
Leviticus 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
Leviticus 23:16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Leviticus 23:17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baked with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Leviticus 23:18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savor unto the LORD.
Leviticus 23:19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
Leviticus 23:20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.
Leviticus 23:21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
Leviticus 23:22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
Nope, God's holy days were given to all Israel by Christ who at that time was not Jewish. Christ gave the holy days through Moses who also was not Jewish.
turbosixx
New member
The mystery was that Gentiles would be "fellow heirs". If the Jews are looking forward and Gentiles receive now, with whom?
andyc
New member
Paul goes out of his way at the beginning of Romans to explain that there are none righteous, whether they under the law or not. All are under sin.
Therefore both need the righteousness of God that comes by faith. He went on to explain that some didn't attain to it because they sort it by works.
And so righteousness of faith is the ONLY message for salvation regardless of whether you see Peter James and John preaching it or not.
There is no difference. There is no Jew or gentile to those who are in Christ.
heir
TOL Subscriber
That's the mystery of the gospel (Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Ephesians 6:19 KJV) that you speak of and is much later revealed in the Ephesians letter.
We (the "ye" who "also trusted" Ephesians 1:13 KJV which includes the Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians) are fellowheirs, and of the same body with those who first trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12 KJV) beginning with Paul (1 Timothy 1:16 KJV) and including the Romans, Corinthians, Galatians and Thessalonians. Together, we are the twain made one new man (Ephesians 2:13-15 KJV).
achduke
Active member
John 1:16-17 16 And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Acts 4:32-33 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Acts 11:21-24 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord. 22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. 23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. 24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
Acts 15:7-11 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
1 Peter 1:10-13 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Peter 4:10 10 As every man hath received the gift, [even so] minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
2 Perter 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
Lots of Biblical authors use the word "grace" and in fact, anyone who has ever been saved, in any dispensation has been saved because of God's grace. Even under the dispensation of law there was grace because no one is capable of following the law perfectly nor maintaining their faith without wavering in the slightest. Thus even the Gospel of Circumcision, while REQUIRING adherence to the law, was under-girded by grace.
This is not AT ALL the same thing as the Gospel of Grace which was preached EXCLUSIVELY by the Apostle Paul. Evidences has been presented for this throughout this thread and I have no doubt there will be more to come.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Cross Reference
New member
Paul merely explained Grace which came by Jesus Christ. So much so did he pursue God to know Him in an intimate way that he could/was able to claim for his own, the very substance of His Grace... . . His Life.
achduke
Active member
It is true that Paul goes into greater detail about Grace but the others did mention it.
Peter breached the subject in Acts 15:11.
This is true now because there are no longer any converts from under the previous dispensation.
That is to say that the callings of God are irrevocable. If you came to God under the Gospel of Circumcision then that where you remained. This was the case for the Twelve and their coverts and so for a time there were two groups, one saved under the Kingdom Gospel which was for Israel and one under the Gospel of Grace (everyone else).
I think part of the confusion has to do with this period of transition from one dispensation to the other. People have a difficult time absorbing the idea that there could be two separate bodies of believers with different rules existing at the same time. This, however, was clearly the case or else not only would have been no need to recruit Paul as a Apostle in the first place but there certainly wouldn't have been any need to separate their ministries as was done in Galatians chapter 2. If everyone had been under the same dispensational set up, as you suggest, the Jews would simply have been instructed to hang it up in regards to the Law - period, not just in regards to forcing the Gentiles to follow it.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Chapter and verse please.
Not interested in your personal opinions, just in what you can make an argument for - a real argument, not just bald assertions stated emphatically.
Cross Reference
New member
I understand the Bible__ the whole Bible. I refuse to give more than my understanding that might require "jot and tittle" just to satisfy your taste for 'red meat' should you suspect a possibility of rebutting anyone you deem less ignorant than you with the hope of prevailing. You need to understand that that is an impossible task for you to undertake. Give it up.. You have already bit the dust on numerous occasions. The latest by Archduke re grace preaching.
Cross Reference
New member
Absolutely!
I have stated prior that Jesus came preaching the kingdom of God. Notwithstanding Peter James and John, Paul came preaching Jesus. Both men came preaching an all encompassing understanding of John 17:3ff.
achduke
Active member
What is the Gospel of Grace other than the mechanics of being saved?
Most people may or not know how a car moves when they press the gas pedal. Do they need to know there is an engine running using fire/explosion to move a piston that moves a drive train to move the wheel in order for the car to move? They know by faith that if they press the gas pedal and the car is in Drive it will move.
We are saved by Grace. Many authors of the bible have mentioned that. Is not the mechanics of Grace through the Lord the same in anyway?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Peter showed that God opened a door to certain Gentiles, that would later validate Paul to walking through it preaching a gospel that was before a mystery (Romans 16:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 KJV).
Cross Reference
New member
Gobbledegoop.
And we were reconciled by grace. Jesus asked for a pass on the blood thing.
Paul said, "and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." (Colossians 1:20)
heir
TOL Subscriber
Peter preached this to those Gentiles Acts 10:35 KJV.
Paul preached this Titus 3:5 KJV.
Peter preached that they shall be saved (future Acts 15:11 KJV) and "the grace" consistent with 1 Peter 1:10 KJV Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
Paul preached that we "are saved" (1 Corinthians 1:18 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV, Ephesians 2:5 KJV/"for by grace are ye saved through faith".
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Things that are different are NOT the same!