How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

[clefty]

If I let parables determine my doctrine, then Luke 16 begins with the parable of the steward who has been squandering his rich master's money. So the master gives the steward notice. And the steward squanders the rich master's money even more, to make friends when he is fired. And Christ commends the steward for his wisdom.

If I were to take this parable as doctrine, then Christ is looking for smart, dishonest followers (Luke 16:8).

I see it as since this rich master was under Torah’s known provision of debt forgiveness every seven years this steward threatened with termination goes and cuts deals with those who owed his master so that rather than having their debts forgiven by the rich man as per Torah law this threatened steward actually makes his master some money...so yes shrewd but a win win...wise as serpents LOL

Please recall that interest too is not made on loans and His people are to live so abundantly that they dont HAVE TO give loans to make more riches but to genuinely help their brothers...lend what you can afford to lose...and if the loan makes him profit then get return off it...

Sadly christians desirous to live FREE of the Torah are then not under its protections...

He said there is no longer jew nor gentile but israelite so we should all have our debts forgiven and loans interest free...

but because jews and christian tradition REJECTS what was done at the cross to graft us into Israel its laws and adopt us to its ways christians are outside what jews call family and are now outside the protection of Torah...sure christians are FREE but now victims to be exploited...

look at history and the Church’s profitting from jewish extortion...allowing only jews to handle money to charge their exploitation interests

the Church then would defend the jew from angry Europeans but then charge protection money service fees known as taxes on the jew...and collect...then the Church also thought of indulgences and well THAT was too much...Germans were tired of their money flowing to Rome...

And to think indulgences were to save us from the updated bosomville...the jewish purgatory...aint that a racket?

His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...

And suppose the steward had been given the name "Jeeves", would that turn the parable into a true story?

Ha ha...Jeeves...reminds me of this funny scene regarding the importance of names in parables...

https://youtu.be/lprk1SBBqB0

“What were their NAMES?” “I don’t know” “Why... he is just making it up!!!”

Instant CLASSIC...lol

 

[iouae]

I see it as since this rich master was under Torah’s known provision of debt forgiveness every seven years this steward threatened with termination goes and cuts deals with those who owed his master so that rather than having their debts forgiven by the rich man as per Torah law this threatened steward actually makes his master some money...so yes shrewd but a win win...wise as serpents LOL

Please recall that interest too is not made on loans and His people are to live so abundantly that they dont HAVE TO give loans to make more riches but to genuinely help their brothers...lend what you can afford to lose...and if the loan makes him profit then get return off it...

Sadly christians desirous to live FREE of the Torah are then not under its protections...

He said there is no longer jew nor gentile but israelite so we should all have our debts forgiven and loans interest free...

but because jews and christian tradition REJECTS what was done at the cross to graft us into Israel its laws and adopt us to its ways christians are outside what jews call family and are now outside the protection of Torah...sure christians are FREE but now victims to be exploited...

look at history and the Church’s profitting from jewish extortion...allowing only jews to handle money to charge their exploitation interests

the Church then would defend the jew from angry Europeans but then charge protection money service fees known as taxes on the jew...and collect...then the Church also thought of indulgences and well THAT was too much...Germans were tired of their money flowing to Rome...

And to think indulgences were to save us from the updated bosomville...the jewish purgatory...aint that a racket?

His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...



Ha ha...Jeeves...reminds me of this funny scene regarding the importance of names in parables...

https://youtu.be/lprk1SBBqB0

“What were their NAMES?” “I don’t know” “Why... he is just making it up!!!”

Instant CLASSIC...lol

There are some interesting OT laws regarding usury and jubilees and debt forgiveness.

Also interesting that if one went into debt, one became a servant/slave of another working off that debt till the jubilee.

 

[clefty]

There are some interesting OT laws regarding usury and jubilees and debt forgiveness.

Also interesting that if one went into debt, one became a servant/slave of another working off that debt till the jubilee.

But did ya like da video? Haha

 

[iouae]

But did ya like da video? Haha

 

[way 2 go]

If its past tense, and a true story, then Abraham is alive now, and we indeed are speaking garbage.

Originally Posted by way 2 go
Abraham is alive now

Mat 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

If I let parables determine my doctrine, then Luke 16 begins with the parable of the steward who has been squandering his rich master's money. So the master gives the steward notice. And the steward squanders the rich master's money even more, to make friends when he is fired. And Christ commends the steward for his wisdom.

If I were to take this parable as doctrine, then Christ is looking for smart, dishonest followers (Luke 16:8).

1. Abraham is alive now
2.you move the goal post
3. Luk 16:9 And I say to you, Make friends by the mammon of unrighteousness for yourselves, so that when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting dwellings.


Mat 6:20 But lay up treasures in Heaven for yourselves, where neither moth nor rust corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal.
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

And suppose the steward had been given the name "Jeeves", would that turn the parable into a true story?

Jesus recounting of Lazarus the rich man & Abraham is true.

Luk 16:22 And it happened that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The rich one also died and was buried.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame.


Eternal Life and Heaven part 2
http://media2.kgov.com/audio/20180221-BEL-051.mp3
physical death is our spirit separated from our body
spiritual death is our spirit separated from God

 

[way 2 go]

yes it does...he didnt see anything is why he asked twice...”what sawest thou?”...”what form” because if he had seen anything he would not have to aske those two times...and then it scripture says Saul “knew” or “perceived” after she described to Saul something everybody knew Samuel wore...if he saw it she wouldnt have had to describe it...and if he saw it it would have been written “and then Saul SAW it was Samuel...and even if Saul did see it so what? Lucifer is an angel of light you think shape shifting into what Samuel looks like is beyond him?

He saw her...probably the floor his face was planted to kinda like yours but your whole head is in the ground about this...LOL
sure it does...or else it would have said Saul SAW Samuel not knew or perceived...

:sherlock:
mkjv 1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.


1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived H3045 that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

H3045
יָדַע
yâda‛
yaw-dah'
A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing)

 

[iouae]

:sherlock:
mkjv 1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.


1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived H3045 that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

H3045
יָדַע
yâda‛
yaw-dah'
A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing)

If Saul has to ask the medium what she sees, Saul obviously did not see the ghost of Samuels past.

Saul is doing what you should understand quite well, assuming.

And most likely the familiar spirit is speaking through the mouth of the medium. That is how things usually work.

And just because a demon is quoted in the Bible does not make what it says true of false. What the demon said was true, who it was pretending to be, was false.

I see you can only keep on quoting this and Luke 16, no attempt at explaining all the other scriptures which put this in context.

For instance from my post #508 I quoted...

Act 2:34
For David is not ascended into the heavens:

So Samuel is ascended, but David is not?
Or where do you think David and Samuel hang out for now?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a reply to this question.

 

[iouae]

But did ya like da video? Haha

At least I better understand the source of your sense of humour

 

[clefty]

:sherlock:
mkjv 1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.


1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived H3045 that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

H3045
יָדַע
yâda‛
yaw-dah'
A primitive root; to know (properly to ascertain by seeing)

Good effort Watson...so in the spirit of the Winter Olympics you get a bronze...

Yada

to know
(Qal)
to know
to know, learn to know
to perceive
to perceive and see, find out and discern


ע yâdaʻ, yaw-dah'; a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing);

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3045&t=KJV

And in keeping with the Olympian theme we understand it to be of amateurs. Perhaps the pro leagues can better help your sleuthing:

Hard to see “see” here...

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/3045.htm

What Saul did is better understood as

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/vaiyeda_3045.htm

Is why none of the translations even in the blue letter have it as “Saul saw”

In order for you to get your most coveted gold medal you would have to find a form of the word “seeing” in 1 Sam 28:14 that we have in 1 Sam 28:13

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/raiti_7200.htm

Congratulations on your bronze though...

As for your ModernKJV I have grown wary of all these modern ways with its Lent, Hell, Sundays, and now Saul seeing spirits...I prefer to stick to the “olde time religion” found in old time scripture...

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mod_kjv.html

The irony much regarding the afterlife is altered in this version...

 

[clefty]

At least I better understand the source of your sense of humour

Busted...ha

“There was a man who had two servants...” “What were their names?” LOL

Here is more source of my sense:

https://youtu.be/udBtbl_CynI

 

[jamie]

How can God resurrect us if we do not have an immortal soul?

Did Jesus say a soul can be destroyed?

 

[iouae]

Did Jesus say a soul can be destroyed?

Yes. Good point Jamie.

Mat 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[iouae]

Busted...ha

“There was a man who had two servants...” “What were their names?” LOL

Here is more source of my sense:

https://youtu.be/udBtbl_CynI

Excellent video.

Compulsory viewing for way to go.

 

[way 2 go]

Yada

to know
(Qal)
to know
to know, learn to know
to perceive
to perceive and see, find out and discern


ע yâdaʻ, yaw-dah'; a primitive root; to know (properly, to ascertain by seeing);

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3045&t=KJV

(properly, to ascertain by seeing);


1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

 

[way 2 go]

If Saul has to ask the medium what she sees, Saul obviously did not see the ghost of Samuels past.

1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

Saul is doing what you should understand quite well, assuming.

you are assuming , I am going by what the text says
show me from the text that it not Samuel because I have the bible saying it is Samuel.

1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul,
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said,
1Sa 28:20 And Saul immediately fell headlong on the earth, and was sorely afraid because of the words of Samuel.

And most likely the familiar spirit is speaking through the mouth of the medium. That is how things usually work.

conjecture . it is Samuel.

I see you can only keep on quoting this and Luke 16, no attempt at explaining all the other scriptures which put this in context.

For instance from my post #508 I quoted...

Act 2:34
For David is not ascended into the heavens:

Act 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand,


so?

Or where do you think David and Samuel hang out for now?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a reply to this question.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

[way 2 go]

If its past tense, and a true story, then Abraham is alive now, and we indeed are speaking garbage.

Abraham is alive now

Mat 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

 

[clefty]

(properly, to ascertain by seeing);

I congratulated you on your bronze...that means third place...you dont even place in Strong’s

“Yada” is not even in 1 Samuel 28:14 this is

http://biblehub.com/hebrew/vaiyeda_3045.htm

Please go and read it for yourself not yada but way·yê·ḏa‘



1st place is the following text you post here which sadly is a MODERNKJV translation...so disqualified for performance enhancing drugs

1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

Thought you were slick eh?

I really lost interest here when you said in post 517 of this thread:

“she saw Samuel "coming up" and then (my conjecture) Saul could see Samuel once he was above ground.”

 

[iouae]

1Sa 28:14 And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.

you are assuming , I am going by what the text says
show me from the text that it not Samuel because I have the bible saying it is Samuel.

1Sa 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul,
1Sa 28:16 And Samuel said,
1Sa 28:20 And Saul immediately fell headlong on the earth, and was sorely afraid because of the words of Samuel.



conjecture . it is Samuel.





Act 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand,


so?


2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Watch the video.

 

[iouae]

Abraham is alive now

Mat 22:32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.”

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Watch the video.

I don't think that you way to go have the foggiest idea of how one comes to Bible doctrine.

Isa 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The Bible with its doctrines is written, a little here and a little there. For this reason, some, like you, fulfil Isa 28:13 "and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.".

You are fixated with two iffy passages, and stubbornly refuse to answer the other scriptures presented to you.

So I conclude the following applies to you...

Pro 17:16
Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?

Except, you don't come with a price in hand, seeking wisdom. You come...

Pro 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

If you show no aptitude to watch the video or change, then I will implement the following...
Pro 23:9
Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

 

[clefty]

Watch the video.

I don't think that you way to go have the foggiest idea of how one comes to Bible doctrine.

Isa 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Isa 28:13
But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The Bible with its doctrines is written, a little here and a little there. For this reason, some, like you, fulfil Isa 28:13 "and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.".

You are fixated with two iffy passages, and stubbornly refuse to answer the other scriptures presented to you.

So I conclude the following applies to you...

Pro 17:16
Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?

Except, you don't come with a price in hand, seeking wisdom. You come...

Pro 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

If you show no aptitude to watch the video or change, then I will implement the following...
Pro 23:9
Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

It saddens me to which end one goes to maintain the idea of the immortality of man...and insist on a hell by which one is burned in torment for all of eternity for poor choices done in the vanity of this 70+ year life...

He, our Creator, seeks followers who by consent wish to worship Him for what He already did and does...not for what He is going to do to you if you don’t...

“Rather mercy than sacrifice” truly speaks to this desire rather than the sadistic mind that stubbornly sustains a lie...Satan’s lie that man was created immortal...ye shall NOT die...