heir
TOL Subscriber
1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV
ECT He shall save His people from their sins
- Thread starter ThreeAngels
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heir
TOL Subscriber
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable...(2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV). It means what it says, as it says it and to whom it says it. It's all written FOR our learning (Romans 15:4 KJV), but it's not ALL written TO us or about us. The very passage you quoted from Paul says "for...,for..., for..., for..." not "to".
The Lord in M, M, L and John was not sent, but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 15:24 KJV) as a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers (Romans 15:8 KJV). We Gentiles at that time were without hope and without God in the world (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV).
Paul is the chosen vessel of the Lord where we are concerned given the dispensation of the grace of God to us-ward (Ephesians 3:1-6 KJV). We follow him in doctrine (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV). We MUST 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV!
heir
TOL Subscriber
He has to as he doesn't believe the Bible means what it says, but many commentaries on what they say it says.
Regardless of who "His people" are, in what way other than His death, burial, and resurrection, was He going to save them from their sins?
The truth is the high priests in Jerusalem were jealous of Jesus and expected Him to justify Himself before them, but He called them hypocrites, who were all show on the outside, but no go on the inside.
Now the Jews, rejecting Christ, have to suffer though the tribulations to have a second chance to embrace Jesus. They have to suffer to overcome because they will not face the truth Jesus is Son of God and God, He is divine.
This lesson must be beat into them and will be to fulfill God's promise to Israel.
Now the Jews, rejecting Christ, have to suffer though the tribulations to have a second chance to embrace Jesus. They have to suffer to overcome because they will not face the truth Jesus is Son of God and God, He is divine.
This lesson must be beat into them and will be to fulfill God's promise to Israel.
Consider that you'd be far better off looking into how to study that kind of thing out for yourself.
One step towards that, that you might try, is to seek out the various passages where He forgives and or heals someone and what He says to them.
Then, separate those out; see if they are all the same issue, or more than one.
Another is - and this is one that many on here violate - is to try to sort out what a writer of Scripture was addressing and or talking about BEFORE they followed that with what they THEN said in relation to what they were talking about.
This will keep you from isolating a passage from the rest of the passages.
Often, by itself; a passage will appear to be saying something that only appears to be the case because the above principle was not followed.
The following is a different kind of salvation, or deliverance from their sins.
Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 1:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 1:73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham, 1:74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 1:75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
That one is based on Daniel's prayer about that, in Daniel 9, and the Angel Gabriel's answer to Daniel's prayer, in that same chapter.
Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes: 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments; 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
9:16 O LORD, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us. 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.
9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
So what happened to Luke 1's deliverance or salvation from those enemies they were under for their sins against the God of their fathers?
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 13:35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
When is that? When will they receive THIS redemption?
Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Where people were not saved by the Lord from their sins, can't be that which Matthew 1:21 (KJV) refers, would you agree? It says "He shall," not He shall not.
Interplanner
Well-known member
danoh wrote:
So what happened to Luke 1's deliverance or salvation from those enemies they were under for their sins against the God of their fathers?
But Dan 9 already explained this. There would be forgiveness, and those forgiven would do well; but most of Judaism became the 'rebellion that desolates' and did not accept forgiveness, nor the mission of the Gospel. That made zealots escalate their conflict.
From the 'answer' of Dan 9 anyone can see: that the place of Israel is decimated; that Messiah is entirely successful in his accomplishments in being cut-off but not for himself.
This is the 'wisdom' of God which that generation called 'foolishness.'
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up.
ThreeAngels
New member
That is the way ordained by God for our salvation. Jesus' mediation as our high priest in heaven is as fully essential to our salvation as His crucifixion was.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Anyone can see from Daniel 9 that the city and sanctuary are destroyed before the abomination of desolation.
Does this send you back to the preterist drawing board?
ThreeAngels
New member
The Lord has ever accepted those who fear Him from all nations. At the birth of Christ, He accepted the gifts at the hand of the Gentile wise men. Earlier on God had spoken through Moses of the Edomites and Egyptians saying, "Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian; because thou wast a stranger in his land. The children that are begotten of them shall enter into the congregation of the LORD in their third generation." Deuteronomy 23:7, 8. God had also accepted the harlot Rahab, and Ruth the Moabitess who was of the bloodline of which Jesus was born. Peter stated the truth that God was willing to accept any of all nations when he said, "... Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." Acts 10:34,35. Jesus during His incarnation was performing the work which He had given to the children of Israel but which they had failed to do in their prejudice and bigotry. This work was the extension of God's invitation to the entire world. He effectively did this in the conversion of the Samaritan woman and her city following the interview at Jacob's well.
Interplanner
Well-known member
There is much more than the John 4 Samaritan woman exchange!
Re Heir on Rom 15: he must have some other promises in mind. The ones the passage has in mind are actually direct blessing to the Gentiles and there are several quotes there to show that. The idea behind 'only the lost sheep' is not exclusion but for the purpose of developing missionaries to the nations. The same idea is in Rom 11: he would really like to get as many Jews going in the mission because of their background. It is never to be exclusive.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Made up. Israel was to be a kingdom of priests. No Gentiles in that priesthood.
Interplanner
Well-known member
It is significant, all the same, that the mission is mentioned in Jn 4, not just of the woman but the whole village. The fields are white for harvest. And that as the account unfolds, the people say 'we no longer believe just because of what you told us but what we have found out for ourselves.'
Christ does not have two missions and he did some 'sorties' into those 'outside Israel' here and there.
Christ does not have two missions and he did some 'sorties' into those 'outside Israel' here and there.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Believe the book, put down the commentaries, and give up the rationalization.
dodge
New member
Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Believe the book, put down the commentaries, and give up the rationalization.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member