Has the Law been done away with?

[jamie]

no requirement for Christians to keep sabbaths or feasts.

So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9 NASB)

Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast...
(1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)​

 

[jamie]

The Law killed but the Spirit gave life.

That's a good thing. The law defines sin, we need to die to the law and walk with Christ in newness of life. (Romans 6:4)

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9 NASB)
​

A verse that has a sum total of zero to do with keeping any calendar day, of very obvious context otherwise. 2 Timothy 2:15.​

 

[jamie]

A verse that has a sum total of zero to do with keeping any calendar day, of very obvious context otherwise. 2 Timothy 2:15.

The weekly Sabbath foreshadows the millennial Sabbath.

For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works" and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience..." (Hebrews 4:4-6)​

The disobedient need not be concerned about the Sabbath. The Sabbath is only for God's people. (Hebrews 4:9)

 

[intojoy]

Two different ideas here following, where we see that the Law is good and that sin causes death, and that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

Romans 7:13 NASB - 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.



2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The problem with the law was the sinfull flesh. The reason that you can't keep the law is due to sin. Are you sinless?

The law was good. It was the sin nature that renders the law ineffective to produce righteousness in the life of the believer.

If a believer tries to use the law to become sanctified it will produce death.

The life of faith is not living in adherence to any law. The life of faith is grace living.



Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Ben Masada]

Two different ideas here following, where we see that the Law is good and that sin causes death, and that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

Romans 7:13 NASB - 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Neither the letter of the Law kills nor does the spirit give life. What kills is to become aware of the Law and still refuse to obey. What gives life is to obey the Law, period. And this applies in all the three categories of the Law: The Law of God, the law of the land and the law of cause & effect. The case with Paul was that when he became aware of the Law, he found out he had become addicted to his sinful condition and could no longer obey, though he did want to. That's called struggle against depressed sinful feelings. (Romans 7:8-25)

 

[Ben Masada]

To say that Jesus broke any part of the law is to say that He sinned since, 'sin is the transgression of the law' 1 John 3:4 Jesus did no sin but fully embodied the law. The holy law itself rejoiced in Christ’s righteousness. The living representation of the law, Christ, could look around on a nation of witnesses, and say, “Which of you convinceth Me of sin?”

I know that the Truth here can be really hard on you because of your Christian preconceived notions. Yes, sin is the transgression of the Law but hey, Jesus was a man upon earth and there has never been one to have done only good and never sinned. Hard to believe but, if you read Ecclesiastes 7:20, you cannot disconnect Jesus from his own gospel. Besides, if Christians are to believe Matthew 23:13-33, the text says that Jesus broke the Golden Rule 15 times. Do you know what the Golden Rule is about? It goes thus: "You cannot do unto others what you would not like they did unto yourself." This rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there! Do you think Jesus would have liked to be addressed to as a hypocrite and brood of vipers? I don't think so. That's what he did to the Jewish authorities. Not only the Jewish authorities but also to the money changers whom he caused financial and physical damages to.

 

[TweetyBird]

Methinks not. Is my English getting that bad? Perhaps something in the wording was obscure, but nope, never said that. Still don't see it, though. Was a post painfully making the case, as a matter of fact, for nine commandments so misread?

What part of unnecessary is obscure? What I done did write:

"I would make the case, though, because the New Testament Bible states, that setting aside a day of the week as a sabbath, by commandment, like your Adventist/Jewish Saturday, is spelled-out in the New Testament as unnecessary. If one esteems every day alike, we have that privilege and freedom, therefore that leaves nine commandments that would constitute a moral breach, not ten, re: Romans 14:5, Colossians 2:16-17. In every instance of legalism creeping into Christianity, you'll find cult status."

I think that your verbiage would still lead one to believe that you are stating the NT sets aside a day of the week as a sabbath, by commandment, but is unnecessary.

I even cite verses sabbaths are not Christian commandments. "I think what we have here is a failure to communicate." Was it me, or thee? I'm always getting accused of stuff I've never even thought or dreamed of, much less said, though, no big deal.

And that is why you felt the discussion was going in circles, due to what appeared to be contradictory statements. Next time, I will ask for clarification to make sure I am reading you correctly :wave:

 

[TweetyBird]

The Law is good because it points out sin. Punishment, in whatever form it comes for (breaking) a specific commandment, is a deterrent for bad or wrong behavior.

The Law is not sin and the Law is not a cause for death. The Law or the Ten Commandments are called the ministry of death. We also read that a command which was to result in life resulted in death for someone (Paul was talking about the law against coveting, which showed himself to be a sinner).

You seem to be disagreeing with yourself. If the Law - the whole Law of Moses, not just the 10 commandments - is called the ministry of death - that means it is the cause for death. As Paul said, it slew us. The Law of Moses was also called a yoke, a burden, it kills, done away, vanished, the oldness of the letter versus the newness of the spirit, sin is revived by the Law, the Law brings the desire to sin, it's a veil causing Israel to be blind and still to this day, waxing old, no longer preached when Christ came, etc.

Coveting was just an example, not the entire reason for the context of Rom 7 and 8.

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

I think that your verbiage would still lead one to believe that you are stating the NT sets aside a day of the week as a sabbath, by commandment, but is unnecessary.

I see what you mean, the intent to say unlike Adventists or Jews sort of thing, there's no New Testament commandment. (Guilty sometimes of obscure, compound sentences, just a lawless writer, the bane of English professors who actually believe punctuation marks come with surrounding rules laid down by Dick, Jane and Spot, this out of one side of their mouths, and talk literature out of the other side.) No, I didn't mean to even imply there's a New Testament commandment to keep sabbaths, scripture cited quite the opposite, going to freedom from various legalisms, not bondage for the Christian. Paul also severely warned against legal bondages various places, and this even of the character of doctrines of demons. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

Legalism is the crux of many enslaving cults, down the ages, and new ones popping up, as we speak, with all their pet, sanctified and ritualized idols, that make them God's special little creatures, in their own minds, who will have heaven all to themselves. It's their way of capturing and holding an audience, by offering some invention people can't get elsewhere, albeit false doctrine.

 

[TweetyBird]

no text

 

[TweetyBird]

You're an anarchist? 2 Thess. 2:7, 8

"If you break the law, we've got a jail for you." ~ J. Vernon McGee

You seem to have me confused with someone else :think:

 

[TweetyBird]

The point is that salvation is by grace. And people still need to repent. Jesus said to repent and believe the gospel before Paul.

I am both a Jew and a Christian. I am observing Torah. The scripture Jesus referred to was before the New Testament writings or the New Testament Scriptures.

A Messianic Ephramite?

 

[TweetyBird]

no text

 

[TweetyBird]

So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9 NASB)​

Which is another day and another place, not the Sabbath day. We are to enter into His rest, by belief in Christ. Today, do not harden your hearts.

It's best to look at the whole context, not pick out a phrase to prove your doctrine.

Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast...
(1 Corinthians 5:7-8 NASB)

Good luck with keeping the Passover feast by cleaning out of the leaven within so you can be a new lump. You can only keep Passover by taking the leaven out of your food and your house. Jesus is the Passover Lamb - the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Not a four legged lamb who was sacrificed for sin. Once again, the context is not about the Passover feast, but about living a righteous life and destroying the desires of the flesh.

 

[serpentdove]

[Winners deserve orange glazed chicken] You seem to have me confused with someone else :think:

What's confusing? What punishment do you prefer for adulterers?

You're nicer than God so let's all listen to you. :BRAVO:

See:

Nicer Than God by Bob Enyart

 

[TweetyBird]

A verse that has a sum total of zero to do with keeping any calendar day, of very obvious context otherwise. 2 Timothy 2:15.

Absolutely agree with you on this :thumb:

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

I thought you said the ten commandments were unnecessary, not taught in Christianity? And now, here we have a nice Christian pro-law platform from you. But of course, it's not preached in your church, right? No sermons on it - is that what you said?

You seem to have a real problem with reading things into what I'm saying, as well as others, that aren't there, and, sorry, I just don't feel like having to rewrite everything for you. I don't much like the message board "turn everything into a debate" thing, never appreciate having words stuffed into my mouth, which you're doing again, a definitive pattern emerging of being just an argumentative person, trying to create controversies I'm not even suffering or the least interested in. If you think I was saying whatever I wasn't even saying, again, please don't expect me to restate everything to your liking or entertain senseless disputes. Maybe somebody else would like to go around and around with you, but you're, clearly, acting like a troll. If I had a person like you around me, who was always poking a stick at everything people say, I'd avoid being around you. You're simply creating non-existent controversies, which I don't find, in the least, intelligent or desirable conversation.

 

[TweetyBird]

I see what you mean, the intent to say unlike Adventists or Jews sort of thing, there's no New Testament commandment. (Guilty sometimes of obscure, compound sentences, just a lawless writer, the bane of English professors who actually believe punctuation marks come with surrounding rules laid down by Dick, Jane and Spot, this out of one side of their mouths, and talk literature out of the other side.) No, I didn't mean to even imply there's a New Testament commandment to keep sabbaths, scripture cited quite the opposite, going to freedom from various legalisms, not bondage for the Christian. Paul also severely warned against legal bondages various places, and this even of the character of doctrines of demons. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

Yes, I see that now - apologies for misunderstanding what you wrote :dunce:

Legalism is the crux of many enslaving cults, down the ages, and new ones popping up, as we speak, with all their pet, sanctified and ritualized idols, that make them God's special little creatures, in their own minds, who will have heaven all to themselves. It's their way of capturing and holding an audience, by offering some invention people can't get elsewhere, albeit false doctrine.

You can say that again ...:up:

 

[TweetyBird]

What's confusing? What punishment do you prefer for adulterers?

Are you defending the right to stone all adulterers? Here's a big problem - are you going to stone all those with lust in their hearts - because Jesus said that was the same thing as adultery ...