iouae
Well-known member
OK.
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God's attitude towards science and progress
- Thread starter iouae
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He might have been attempting something, but I didn't get much past the first sentence.
iouae
Well-known member
He might have been attempting something, but I didn't get much past the first sentence.
Here is a chance to read it again.
Let's perform a thought experiment with Luke 18:19.
Luk 18:19
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Let us just for a moment entertain the hypothesis that Christ is denying that He is good, and saying that only one Being is good, and that Being is God the Father.
We can always go back to believing that Christ IS good. A thought experiment means to entertain an idea we might not believe to be true. We might believe that because Christ is God, He has to be good. And wasn't he sinless? And did He not say that if you had seen Him you had seen the Father? Or He may be saying that speaking as a human he is not good, because humans can be tempted whereas God cannot. So we may have many doubts as to our hypothesis.
Let's try out our hypothesis viz. that Christ is not good, only the Father is.
How could this possibly be?
I previously stated that to do the will of God is "good" and to go against that will is "evil".
Both Jesus and the Father think and feel independently, and have independent wills.
We see this in the Garden of Gethsemane where Christ wills not to go through with the crucifixion, but the Father wills that he does.
Now I narrow the definition that to do the will of God THE FATHER is "good" and to go against that will is "evil".
Let's suppose Christ had refused to comply with the Father's will that He be crucified, then Christ would have been doing evil. Christ acknowledged this by saying "Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done".
Here Christ is denying His will and affirming the Father's will as being the one that counts.
In fact Christ is pointing us to the definition of "good". Doing the Father's will is good.
There is never a time when doing the Father's will is wrong.
Christ came to reveal "goodness".
Heb 10:7
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.
Christ came to set an example of doing the Father's will.
The Lord taught us to pray to the Father, not Himself.
Mat 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
The whole Lord's prayer is focused on the Father. Notice who's will is to be done, the Father's not Christ's.
Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Let's have a look at Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
We know that Christ could be tempted, but why is it that the Father cannot be tempted?
The Father cannot be tempted to go against His own will, just like most people are not tempted to go against themselves. Especially as James explains how God is not double minded.
I remember my Mother once saying to me "You know, your Dad is actually very easy to get along with so long as he gets his own way". I thought "toddlers are very easy to get along with so long as they get their own way". I am very easy to get along with so long as I am getting my own way.
The Father cannot sin because to sin would be to go against the Father's will, and why would the Father oppose Himself?
But every other sentient being in the universe also has a will, and when this will is in opposition to the Father, that is, by definition, "evil".
Christ learned obedience by what He suffered. Christ has not forgotten what He learned. Christ learned to conform to the Father's will, no matter what pressure to do otherwise. The Holy Spirit sent from heaven will teach us to always conform to the Father's will.
I accept the hypothesis that to do the Father's will is the definition of "good".
It's also a chance for me to ignore it again. :up:
When the foundation you provided for OP has been shown false, the post is undermined in its entirety.
You need to retract and rethink, not post spam. :spam:
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, the Lord did not reveal anything before it's time....that scripture would be fulfilled. From His birth to His death and the timing of Passover. Hundreds of prophecies, including timing, had to be fulfilled.
Spoiler
Matt. 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be? 55 In that same hour said Jesus to the multitudes, Are ye come out as against a thief with swords and staves for to take me? I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me. 56 But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.
Had the Lord openly declared Himself God, the Jews would have crucified Him before His time. As it was they could hardly contain themselves. This verse is a good example. The Jews did not fall over backward to the ground because Jesus said He was just a man from Nazareth. No, He said He was the great I AM. They understood what most us gentiles don't understand. Jesus was saying quite plainly to the Jews that He was God (I AM).
John 18:5-6
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.
The time had come to lay down His life. All would be fulfilled as had been written (including the timing).
iouae
Well-known member
Christ IS the great "I AM" - the great I am subject to the Father.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I have no idea what you just said, but within the Godhead there is complete equality...subject one to another.
iouae
Well-known member
Anything that anyone wants to say about the greatness of Christ, how He is God, the great I AM, eternal, YHWH Elohim, the God of the Old Testament, the One who spoke to Moses and all the prophets, the one who created everything and spoke to Adam - Christ is all that.
But Christ still does not get to define right and wrong. Only the Father does that. The Father's will be done.
Christ sits at the right hand of God the Father, waiting for God the Father to make Christ's enemies His footstool. The Father's vision will be the locomotive carrying us all forward. The "good" and right thing required of all, including Christ, is to follow the Father into the future.
But Christ still does not get to define right and wrong. Only the Father does that. The Father's will be done.
Christ sits at the right hand of God the Father, waiting for God the Father to make Christ's enemies His footstool. The Father's vision will be the locomotive carrying us all forward. The "good" and right thing required of all, including Christ, is to follow the Father into the future.
iouae
Well-known member
Psa 110:1
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The greater says to the lesser "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
1Co 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
The Father is the sun, Christ is the moon in glory, reflecting the Father's glory, but not equal.
And then the lesser is acknowledged as equal:
Psa 110:5 The Lord[Adonai] at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.
iouae
Well-known member
The scripture you quote does not say they are equal. Christ is SENT, as Captain of the armies of heaven, to do the Father's will.
Jos 5:14
And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Heb 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.
Jhn 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
The one who is called Lord/Adon/sir/master in Ps 110:1 is called Adonai in vs 5, a term reserved only for the sovereign LORD of all.. YHVH.
iouae
Well-known member
Both Christ and the Father are YHVH Elohim.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH] {referring here to the Father}, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, {referring here to Christ} and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] {proving that Christ too is a YHVH Elohim} OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS
Both being YHVH Elohim does not negate the fact that the one is subject to the other.
True.
iouae
Well-known member
Thank you - especially since I got the quotes from your signature at the bottom of all your posts.
glorydaz
Well-known member
What a bunch of bull. All made up. The Light of the world is not the moon. John 8:12
Christ is the visible of the invisible. The Lord of Glory, and it's His humanity that allowed us to behold His Glory as God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You don't seem to understand that Jesus is God and man.
How do you explain the fact that He is both the ROOT and the OFFSPRING of David?
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
You don't seem to understand that He is both Creator and a man of flesh.
If you don't, all your words are just vain imaginings. :idunno:
iouae
Well-known member
Jhn 6:57
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
The sent is lesser than the one sending.
Jhn 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Jhn 5:36
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Jhn 5:37
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 6:57
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Jhn 8:16
And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Jhn 8:18
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Jhn 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jhn 17:21
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Jhn 17:25
O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Jhn 20:21
Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
iouae
Well-known member
Everything you say I don't understand, I do understand, AND AGREE WITH YOU.
What you don't understand, probably because you are a product of the hippie, we-are-all= generation is that in God's world, the Father is greater than the Son, while both are God, and YHVH Elohim eternal, Creator Beings.