See how Uber wants to vent his spleen, he cries for justice....then slam-bams God for being angry at sin all the day long.
For everyone who is concerned about my eternal soul
- Thread starter GreatBigBore
- Start date
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Unacceptable......
Unacceptable......
Wow. Shall we report you for name calling? This is below the belt even for you. Regardless of your lifetime-member status this is inappropriate. I recommend a redress. Also noting all those aagreeingugreeing with these sentiments ganging up on GBB to defend their 'concept' of God as if God needed their help.
The main issue in the OP was addressing the concept of torturing souls in eternal hellfire, or ECT (eternal conscious torment). I've challenged the 'belief' as insane on a variety levels here. Whether this is a misconception or not, its the idea, belief or concept that is being rejected as ilogocal, if not insane. Hence one might be apt to reject the 'God' involved.
Try addressing the main subject instead making personal jabs and insults. I understand we can get impassioned at times and let things slip....but there is an interval of time available to us before we hit the 'submit' button and we can edit or apologize later too. I too deal with buffoons, some that present themselves as real idiots, ignorant, bigoted, crass, vile....you name it. Ugly is ugly no matter what religious dressing you throw on it. Its challenging to engage these types so must do carefully, calling out their behavior, but trying not to engage in ad hominems or demeaning them personally. If we miss discussing the subject, ideas, principles, concepts, letting egos flare up... it just becomes a merry-go-round going nowhere with people being hurt.
Calling somone a 'faggot' crosses the line.
pj
Unacceptable......
Wow. Shall we report you for name calling? This is below the belt even for you. Regardless of your lifetime-member status this is inappropriate. I recommend a redress. Also noting all those aagreeingugreeing with these sentiments ganging up on GBB to defend their 'concept' of God as if God needed their help.
The main issue in the OP was addressing the concept of torturing souls in eternal hellfire, or ECT (eternal conscious torment). I've challenged the 'belief' as insane on a variety levels here. Whether this is a misconception or not, its the idea, belief or concept that is being rejected as ilogocal, if not insane. Hence one might be apt to reject the 'God' involved.
Try addressing the main subject instead making personal jabs and insults. I understand we can get impassioned at times and let things slip....but there is an interval of time available to us before we hit the 'submit' button and we can edit or apologize later too. I too deal with buffoons, some that present themselves as real idiots, ignorant, bigoted, crass, vile....you name it. Ugly is ugly no matter what religious dressing you throw on it. Its challenging to engage these types so must do carefully, calling out their behavior, but trying not to engage in ad hominems or demeaning them personally. If we miss discussing the subject, ideas, principles, concepts, letting egos flare up... it just becomes a merry-go-round going nowhere with people being hurt.
Calling somone a 'faggot' crosses the line.
pj
I have no problem with doing both.
You can report any post you wish.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Over the line for whom? Certainly not for faggots since they call each other that all the time.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I think they just enjoy the attention. They must be lonely souls, indeed.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Ooh....I'm thinking Tam must be so scared. What are you going to do, RIOT....or in your case, have a tannie? :chuckle:
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Over the line for most respectful types in the LGBT community, since it is mostly used in a defamatory demeaning sense (even if a few die-hards try to convert it in another way). The word 'queer' is less incriminating and openly accepted by some, it doesnt carry as much harm and negativity as 'faggot'.
pj
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Gods character and actions are open to criticism, so how we interpret such affects how we judge. I can empathize on the torment issue, although I think the 'spitting on god' motif, even if just a metaphor...is a bit overboard
pj
GFR7
New member
I would agree that an argument can be had without using the word "faggot". I don't like that term, nor any derogatory terms - it weakens any argument for certain.
Of course aCW has called me that numerous times :jawdrop:
musterion
Well-known member
musterion
Well-known member
Not impressive, coming from a leftist who just got banned for saying what he really thinks about black people. Try another moral outrage channel, the anti-bigotry station is off the air for you.
The title of your thread is: For everyone who is concerned about my eternal soul.
However this does not seem to be your agenda.
You seem bent on proving that God is many things which you perceive to be bad and you spit in His face.
Do you perceive that the path for expressing concern for 'your eternal soul' is to attempt to prove that God is many things which you perceive to be bad and your spiting in His face.
Are you looking for people who agree with you? And do you think that that will be an expression of concern for 'your eternal soul'?
For what, are you looking?
I am not saying that you are either right or wrong. I am simply seeking a starting point of understanding.
| [size=+1]For example I do not know that God wants anyone to sing joyfully while other people burn in agony for eternity. I discern that God does not have any particular choice in that matter. Things will work as they will work and each person reaps what he sows. And so be it. It is confirmed that God sent His son to earth to show humans the path through which each of then might avoid being burnt in agony for eternity. Fact is agony exists and burning in hell exists. God created heaven and earth and the depths of earth where it is very hot and uncomfortable. If this was not so earth would not have existed to support human life. For example crude oil would not have been made and growing of food would not have been possible. It was never intended for humans to go into the depths of earth. However some human chose to go there under their own free will. During their left they identify so strongly with things related to the depths of earth that they go there when they die. They do not identify with things of spirit heaven. You conclusions that "God wants some people to sing joyfully while other people burn in agony for eternity", seem to be an assumption and it is very dangerous to condemn any one, even God on assumptions. That is equal to deny, persecute and blaspheme without due care and attention. That seems to be reckless endangerment . . . of one's own spirit and soul. [/size] |
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It's a bit hard to debate a subject when you have expressly stated already that you are closed to further debate. So I don't really expect an answer but I wouldn't want to leave it there as if there wasn't an answer. So here it is anyway.
God gave the Israelites a law to teach them the difference between right and wrong. In order to get them to learn, the law, as you might expect, needed authority. All law is like that: you don't get to obey the law when you feel like it and hang it when you don't. If you disobey the law then you can expect to be punished and rightly so.
But teaching people the difference between right and wrong is not the same as teaching them to act rightly. To do that, you need more than punishment for wrongdoing, you need motivation. You need conscience.
That's why God sent Jesus. In him, we have a new relationship with God that depends on faith, not on keeping law. It is like being in the ruler's family instead of just being one of the ruler's subjects. The subjects need to keep the law but no matter how much they keep it, it won't make them family. Only being family guarantees you a right relationship with the king. And family are not subject to the law. The law is for subjects, not family. In God's kingdom, you are a subject and if you break the law you will be punished. But God is in the habit of adopting into his family all those who believe.
In said family you can break the law and nothing will happen to you. Effectively you aren't breaking the law at all because for family there is no law anyway. But you can do the things that subjects are not allowed to do and get away with it. Yes, that is what we teach.
But what we also teach is that in the family of God, we live by new principles. We don't go around breaking the law because that is fun. We do it because there are higher principles involved. The king's family have a different motivation; they work for the kingdom whereas the subjects only work for themselves. That is why the subjects need laws to keep them in order. Those who live by faith are quite happy with lying to terrorists, killing attackers or eating meat on Friday. Their motivation is to promote and defend justice, be merciful to the repentant or the innocent, to proclaim the Gospel and to be people you can trust, even if it is to their cost. And in general we who are family keep the law more than subjects do, because we are motivated and because the law is good. We set examples - subjects fear for their own skin.
I'm sorry to hear that your dad was a terrorist and that you grew up in fear. I didn't have an exactly pleasant childhood either. And whilst I can sympathise greatly with your view that torture is wrong, I can't make a rule about it. Rules are for subjects, I am family.
And I doubt anyway that there is a place of torment where wrongdoers are tortured with unending pain. I don't think the Bible teaches that. I (and many others - perhaps as much as half of all Christians outside the Catholic church) think that at the judgement you will be presented with your wrongdoing and then you will be thrown into the fire of judgement - where you will be burnt up. Not tortured. Caput. End. Snuffed out. Whilst the righteous (not those who managed to keep the law but those who are family) will be resurrected to eternal life.
If that is true, then it is a principle that presages the death penalty rather than torture and I would be inclined to agree that torture is unjust and should be fought against. But as I said, I can't make a rule about it because I don't know for sure that in every circumstance the rule will be valid. Rules are for the immature, for subjects, not for those in the kingdom. In the kingdom, we use our heads because we are led by the Holy Spirit; we don't do blind obedience, which is how all those who live under rules are. And we don't usually go around spitting on our opponents.
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Just like it makes me giggle when people imply Hitler is a naughty naughty-boy.
GreatBigBore
New member
I got a warning that I was falsely reporting posts. I don't know if that means I falsely reported that I made a post, or that I made claims about the answers that people gave me. Either way, all I can offer is the evidence: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106030
oatmeal
Well-known member
U,
I rewrote your post to fit the situation more appropriately.
You are not concerned with your soul or your self-esteem for the evening. You are concerned with preserving your world view, and you don't mind overlooking obvious flaws. You chalk up the stupid, the contradictory, and the evil to being too complex for humans to understand. It's an easy out for you.
That might be because a mod thinks you have falsely reported a post as in violation of the forum rules when it does not actually read as such or that the mod likes the person that you reported more than he or she likes you. That is how a Christian Forum functions: It's not what you do, it's who you know. This kind of thing is closely tied to their religious philosophy. If you know Jesus, feel free to sin with impunity. The mafia functions under similar mores. So shaadap if you knows whats good for you ! Capeesh?
Very creative !