For everyone who is concerned about my eternal soul

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
God is just even if (or especially if) He succeeds in bringing an end to wickedness by bringing the wicked to repentance. I don't know if all will repent or some will perish because they continue to refuse. Either way God is just. It doesn't follow logically that God is unjust if all are saved.

We already KNOW FOR A FACT that not all repent! Did Hitler repent? Did Genghis Khan repent? Did Osama Bin Laden repent? Did David Koresh repent? Did King Herod repent? Did all of the Roman Emperors repent along with every other despotic dictator that has ever existed? Do you think that every man, woman and child that has lived and died on this Earth made death bed confessions of faith before meeting their Maker?

Come on!

Besides, as I said before, if the bible does not teach that people are sent to Hell, it doesn't teach anything. Your wishful thinking not withstanding, your version of God is unjust! You need to correct the error of your thinking rather than just ignoring what the bible clearly teaches. That's what it means to repent. As it is, you're making your own god up as you go. That's called idolatry.

Further, you did very little more than simply repeat your position. You respond to the fist sentence and ignore everything that was said to substantiate it.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Rosenritter

New member
We already KNOW FOR A FACT that not all repent! Did Hitler repent? Did Genghis Khan repent? Did Osama Bin Laden repent? Did David Koresh repent? Did King Herod repent? Did all of the Roman Emperors repent along with every other despotic dictator that has ever existed? Do you think that every man, woman and child that has lived and died on this Earth made death bed confessions of faith before meeting their Maker?

Come on!

Resting in Him,
Clete

You know for a fact that these people did not repent? I am curious as to how you have obtained that information from the very mind of God. It is one thing for you to say that such repentance is unlikely to have occurred based on probability or evidence of actions, but when you start naming specific people as if you know the answer aren't you intruding on the role of the judge of the quick and the dead?

God himself has not passed judgment on these people yet, so maybe it would do us well not to be hasty to judge them for Him.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
You know for a fact that these people did not repent? I am curious as to how you have obtained that information from the very mind of God. It is one thing for you to say that such repentance is unlikely to have occurred based on probability or evidence of actions, but when you start naming specific people as if you know the answer aren't you intruding on the role of the judge of the quick and the dead?

God himself has not passed judgment on these people yet, so maybe it would do us well not to be hasty to judge them for Him.

Don't be stupid!

Are you prepared to say that every man, woman and child that has ever died, made a confession of faith is Jesus Christ, believing that He died for their sin and rose from the grave on the third day?

Are you really prepared to even suggest that such is even remotely possible?


And yes! I do know for a fact that the people I listed did NOT make any such confession and that they are in Hell. Any third grader is smart enough to figure that one out.
 

Rosenritter

New member
Don't be stupid!

Are you prepared to say that every man, woman and child that has ever died, made a confession of faith is Jesus Christ, believing that He died for their sin and rose from the grave on the third day?

Are you really prepared to even suggest that such is even remotely possible?


And yes! I do know for a fact that the people I listed did NOT make any such confession and that they are in Hell. Any third grader is smart enough to figure that one out.

You would do well to read carefully before you respond. Can you see any sentence in that brief reply claiming that "every man woman and child made a Baptist-branded confession of faith before they died?" No, you do not. I didn't even lend validity to said concept in the first place. What I did state was the impossibility of you (personally) having such knowledge to exclude any specific person.... at least not without claiming God's realm of the knowledge of the human heart and mind.

Please explain how you obtained this knowledge (as to the final decisions made by those specific individuals) that could only be known to the mind of God. Do you claim special revelation? Did a spirit or angel bring you this news? Lacking that, can you show some sign that by which we should believe you?

Source text:

2Ti 4:1 KJV
(1) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Comprehension Quiz:

1. Who is the judge of the quick and the dead?
a) Adam
b) Clete
c) John Calvin
d) Jesus

2. When shall the quick and the dead be judged?
a) Before creation during "eternity past"
b) Upon their conception
c) At the moment of their death
d) At his appearing and his kingdom

It's an open book test. Good luck.
 
Last edited:

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
You would do well to read carefully before you respond. Can you see any sentence in that brief reply claiming that "every man woman and child made a Baptist-branded confession of faith before they died?" No, you do not. I didn't even lend validity to said concept in the first place. What I did state was the impossibility of you (personally) having such knowledge to exclude any specific person.... at least not without claiming God's realm of the knowledge of the human heart and mind.

Please explain how you obtained this knowledge (as to the final decisions made by those specific individuals) that could only be known to the mind of God. Do you claim special revelation? Did a spirit or angel bring you this news? Lacking that, can you show some sign that by which we should believe you?

Source text:

2Ti 4:1 KJV
(1) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Comprehension Quiz:

1. Who is the judge of the quick and the dead?
a) Adam
b) Clete
c) John Calvin
d) Jesus

2. When shall the quick and the dead be judged?
a) Before creation during "eternity past"
b) Upon their conception
c) At the moment of their death
d) At his appearing and his kingdom

It's an open book test. Good luck.

So I know this one! And I am thankful to have read your OP!

Genesis - Revelation

[emoji106]


Sent from my iPad using TOL Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
You would do well to read carefully before you respond. Can you see any sentence in that brief reply claiming that "every man woman and child made a Baptist-branded confession of faith before they died?" No, you do not. I didn't even lend validity to said concept in the first place. What I did state was the impossibility of you (personally) having such knowledge to exclude any specific person.... at least not without claiming God's realm of the knowledge of the human heart and mind.
Nonsense.

I know for a fact that Genghis Khan did not believe in the God of Israel or Jesus Christ - ever. Same goes for Hitler, David Koresh, virtually all, if not all of the Roman Emporers and the rest of the individuals I listed.

Please explain how you obtained this knowledge (as to the final decisions made by those specific individuals) that could only be known to the mind of God. Do you claim special revelation? Did a spirit or angel bring you this news? Lacking that, can you show some sign that by which we should believe you?
As I said before, don't be stupid.

It's called common sense. I don't need to have first person knowledge to know these things and neither do you.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Timotheos

New member
We already KNOW FOR A FACT that not all repent! Did Hitler repent? Did Genghis Khan repent? Did Osama Bin Laden repent? Did David Koresh repent? Did King Herod repent? Did all of the Roman Emperors repent along with every other despotic dictator that has ever existed? Do you think that every man, woman and child that has lived and died on this Earth made death bed confessions of faith before meeting their Maker?

Come on!

Besides, as I said before, if the bible does not teach that people are sent to Hell, it doesn't teach anything. Your wishful thinking not withstanding, your version of God is unjust! You need to correct the error of your thinking rather than just ignoring what the bible clearly teaches. That's what it means to repent. As it is, you're making your own god up as you go. That's called idolatry.

Further, you did very little more than simply repeat your position. You respond to the fist sentence and ignore everything that was said to substantiate it.

Resting in Him,
Clete

If they refuse to repent, then they pay the wages of their sin which is death, and thus Justice is done.
OR do you disagree with the Bible which states "For the wages of sin is death"?
 

Rosenritter

New member
Nonsense.

I know for a fact that Genghis Khan did not believe in the God of Israel or Jesus Christ - ever. Same goes for Hitler, David Koresh, virtually all, if not all of the Roman Emporers and the rest of the individuals I listed.


As I said before, don't be stupid.

It's called common sense. I don't need to have first person knowledge to know these things and neither do you.

Resting in Him,
Clete

To the contrary Clete, one does need direct knowledge to judge the heart and mind of another human. God and Christ have that power and ability, you do not. But perhaps you could clarify. How many works does one need for repentance to be both genuine and accepted by God? Or how much "waiting time" is required for God to make sure He isn't being fooled?

Luk 23:42-43 KJV
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Quiz Time!

How much time or multitude of works is required for God to accept genuine repentance?

a) One day and a minimum one thousand dollars
b) One year and fifty Hail Marys
c) Forgiveness and acceptance is instantaneous upon sincere repentance
d) God needs the approval of at least two of the following: Gabriel the archangel, Michael the archangel, and/or Clete

I'd love to see your answers to the previous questions, but as bonus credit perhaps you can tell us how you know for certain that Genghis Khan was not spoken to in a vision before his death. Christ may not have been preached to him during his life, but are you qualified to limit how God will reveal himself to mortals when evangelism falls short? You seem pretty anxious to cast others into hell, so please tell us your answer.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
God's Love inclues ALL

God's Love inclues ALL

To the contrary Clete, one does need direct knowledge to judge the heart and mind of another human. God and Christ have that power and ability, you do not. But perhaps you could clarify. How many works does one need for repentance to be both genuine and accepted by God? Or how much "waiting time" is required for God to make sure He isn't being fooled?

Luk 23:42-43 KJV
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Quiz Time!

How much time or multitude of works is required for God to accept genuine repentance?

a) One day and a minimum one thousand dollars
b) One year and fifty Hail Marys
c) Forgiveness and acceptance is instantaneous upon sincere repentance
d) God needs the approval of at least two of the following: Gabriel the archangel, Michael the archangel, and/or Clete

I'd love to see your answers to the previous questions, but as bonus credit perhaps you can tell us how you know for certain that Genghis Khan was not spoken to in a vision before his death. Christ may not have been preached to him during his life, but are you qualified to limit how God will reveal himself to mortals when evangelism falls short? You seem pretty anxious to cast others into hell, so please tell us your answer.

:thumb:

Only 'God' alone can judge the heart and soul, and knows things that are beyond our own assumptions, religious dogmas or just personal belief-system (with its traps, hang-ups and distortions).

Also, I see divine grace/love as extending far beyond our own religious custom's terms and limitations on God's character or actions, since the Infinite is just that,....INFINITE :)

When I consider the magnitude of 'infinite love', I am humbled all the more to see divine providence or grace include all sentient beings, no matter how wicked, vile or destitute. The sin of fallen mortals or angels does nothing to quench or change the eternality or infinity of divine love.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
To the contrary Clete, one does need direct knowledge to judge the heart and mind of another human. God and Christ have that power and ability, you do not. But perhaps you could clarify. How many works does one need for repentance to be both genuine and accepted by God? Or how much "waiting time" is required for God to make sure He isn't being fooled?

Luk 23:42-43 KJV
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Quiz Time!

How much time or multitude of works is required for God to accept genuine repentance?

a) One day and a minimum one thousand dollars
b) One year and fifty Hail Marys
c) Forgiveness and acceptance is instantaneous upon sincere repentance
d) God needs the approval of at least two of the following: Gabriel the archangel, Michael the archangel, and/or Clete

I'd love to see your answers to the previous questions, but as bonus credit perhaps you can tell us how you know for certain that Genghis Khan was not spoken to in a vision before his death. Christ may not have been preached to him during his life, but are you qualified to limit how God will reveal himself to mortals when evangelism falls short? You seem pretty anxious to cast others into hell, so please tell us your answer.
Since you insist on being stupid...

Welcome to my now very crowded ignore list!

:wave2:
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Oh gag on your Iggy list!...............

Oh gag on your Iggy list!...............

Since you insist on being stupid...

Welcome to my now very crowded ignore list!

:wave2:

I'm sure he's in good company with a few of us more wonderful eccentric types who have the courage to speak our minds, articulate our points of view, and call the cards as we see em ;)

Don't forget,..there is a time to ignore, but it can also be an exuse or evasion of engaging the dialogue and researching your own assumptions on a matter, which which may require a changing or modifications of your belief-system, a questioning your own 'assumptions', presuppositions, opinions, etc. A student of truth is always open to have his views corrected, modified or expanded at any moment of new information, or fresh revelation. "The letter kills, the Spirit gives life" (more rather the Spirit is LIFE). That could be scary for some,....so a wave of the hand and charge of 'stupidity' (or host of other ad hominems) may be an easier game move.


Injoy!
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I'm sure he's in good company with a few of us more wonderful eccentric types who have the courage to speak our minds, articulate our points of view, and call the cards as we see em ;)
Did you think you were on my ignore list?

:chuckle:

People who are stubbornly stupid, openly blaspheme or intentionally waste my time are on my ignore list.

This is an internet forum on which anyone with a computer can post. It isn't surprising to me that the majority of people who post here will be wastes of time. Most however, are not intentionally so and so long as they are willing to make an argument and respond substantively to arguments made against their position then they usually stay off my ignore list.

Don't forget,..there is a time to ignore, but it can also be an excuse or evasion of engaging the dialogue and researching your own assumptions on a matter, which which may require a changing or modifications of your belief-system, a questioning your own 'assumptions', presuppositions, opinions, etc.
I've been posting on this website for way over ten years. I've more than established that I do not evade issues.

A student of truth is always open to have his views corrected, modified or expanded at any moment of new information, or fresh revelation.
The problem is you can't find more than maybe a dozen people on this website that fit that description. Most aren't even capable of doing anything more than merely stating their beliefs and couldn't make an actual argument if their life depended on it.

"The letter kills, the Spirit gives life" (more rather the Spirit is LIFE). That could be scary for some,....so a wave of the hand and charge of 'stupidity' (or host of other ad hominems) may be an easier game move.
I gave the idiot three chances and it insisted upon suggesting the Genghis Khan might possibly have come to a saving faith before his death. That's a level of stupidity that I will not waste my time with.

And, "Oh gag on your Iggy list!" - Really? That's a little strong for you isn't it. I thought you were something of a touchy-feely, 'judge not' type. Then again I almost never read a word you write so who knows.
 

Rosenritter

New member
I didn't even read his question.

Gotta get passed the stupidity of thinking it possible that Genghis Khan might have gotten saved first.

Is it not written?

Pro 18:12-13 KJV
(12) Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility.
(13) He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
If you wish to go there...............

If you wish to go there...............

Did you think you were on my ignore list?

:chuckle:

People who are stubbornly stupid, openly blaspheme or intentionally waste my time are on my ignore list.

Hi Clete,

Yes, I thought I was on your ignore list since you haven't responded to a few of my last posts. I guess you ignoring what I write and not responding is just as good as being on your ignore list? Why don't you just put me on your iggy list if not bothering to read my posts, it'd be just as well. I've written a lot here for over 10 years and hold my own unique position here just as your self, so all are known by their own theological style and persuasions. We each bring something unique and different to the table.

This is an internet forum on which anyone with a computer can post. It isn't surprising to me that the majority of people who post here will be wastes of time. Most however, are not intentionally so and so long as they are willing to make an argument and respond substantively to arguments made against their position then they usually stay off my ignore list.

Again, that's reasonable,...I hold my own, you can read my previous posts, blog, commentary, etc., I usually take a more liberal eclectic view of various theological topics, and have been ever open to 'creative dialogue' or debate for over a decade here too. Granted, respect is mutually earned,...I've just assumed you weren't interested in my discourses or points being made, so was on your ignore list :idunno: - hence my somewhat sarcastic remark.

I've been posting on this website for way over ten years. I've more than established that I do not evade issues.

Same here.

The problem is you can't find more than maybe a dozen people on this website that fit that description. Most aren't even capable of doing anything more than merely stating their beliefs and couldn't make an actual argument if their life depended on it.

You might be over-generalizing there, yes...there are various characters here that cant hold much of an intelligent or constructive dialogue (beyond just being a 'troll') sure....but as far as us debating or discussing issues, you haven't really engaged me much over the years here, if my memory serves. Just an observation.

I gave the idiot three chances and it insisted upon suggesting the Genghis Khan might possibly have come to a saving faith before his death. That's a level of stupidity that I will not waste my time with.

Now be nice :) - I've found Rosenritter to be an intelligent and interesting poster so far, unless any evidence proves otherwise. My former posts relating to your own posts here still holds. The infinity of God's love goes even beyond our finite assumptions and human presuppositions. I don't limit God's grace to only one human lifetime, neither do I believe one only has one little sliver of a human life (one incarnation) on earth to prove himself or make a final decision about their eternal destiny.

And, "Oh gag on your Iggy list!" - Really? That's a little strong for you isn't it. I thought you were something of a touchy-feely, 'judge not' type. Then again I almost never read a word you write so who knows.

:) - that's just a little of my tongue in cheek humor. I've called it an 'iggy' list in the past. I see again your emphasizing that you do not read my commentary,...this could mean you don't have an interest or see any value in dialoguing with me, although I've held my own here over the years, and am equally competent in engaging any subject, if the interest is there. Of course some discussions can reach an exhaustion point, hence creative ways to end or conclude sharing differing viewpoints. One might take your "I almost never read a word you write" as somewhat condescending. You see how one could get that from that.
 
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