ECT Does Romans 9 support Individual Election?

musterion

musterion

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
Nang is such a riot. She talks about others, but can't even give us one example of that "obedience" that is so "evident" from all the Christians she has met in her lifetime. She can know a person's faith in genuine by that obedience, but can't give us any evidence of it. :popcorn:
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She can't even know for sure that she's obeying because she can't know that she's not reprobate. No Calvinist can.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Check this out.

https://www.calvinistcorner.com/know-if-chosen.htm

There are two ways a person can know that they are one of God's elect. The first deals with doctrine and the second deals with practice.
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Here's those two...watch the Calvin cultist's slick slight of hand:

The natural man is the unbeliever. So the word of God is telling us to unbelievers cannot receive in and believe in the spiritual truths that lead to salvation. The spiritual truths include such things as Jesus dying for sin, Jesus being God in flesh, Jesus physically resurrected from the dead, etc.
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See it? Believing Christ died for your sin and rising again, plus etc. No doubt faith in TULIP is assumed there.

Number two:

The second thing to look at is the person's life. Christians seek to abandon their sin and to war against. Unbelievers don't do that.
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That's a lie on two points. First, pretty much every religion on earth is somebody's attempt to deal with a violated conscience because of sin. Second, this is where works salvation come into Reformed soteriology in the form of Lordship Salvation. No works = no proof = no salvation.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Interplanner said:
That's nonsense because the shedding of Christ's blood was a covenant-cutting ceremony, cosmic scale. You know so little. "I will make you a covenant for the nations." "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me."
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That was in the context within which it was given. The ONE NEW MAN is not the same thing.

Interplanner said:
Rom 5:9 is not contra a covenant.
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The ONE NEW MAN does not have nor need a covenant to be justified by HIS BLOOD.

Interplanner said:
Nor are the other two; remember your argument that silence or absence of reference does not mean ______? Hey now its your turn to apply that.

BUt these other passages don't matter because HEBREWS 9-10 is the official interp of Heb 8 and repeats some of the Jeremiah material. You don't sound like Heb 9-10 and you don't sound like you know it is there. Show me that it is.
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Your "interp" is wrong.

Interplanner said:
I hope you don't mean body of Christ as in BOC because that is another form of D'ist dementia, conflicting with fundamental NT passages.

"This cup is the new covenant in my blood." Well yeah!

"This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many." Well yeah!

It was a covenant and it was the blood. I don't know what your problem is, but you don't submit to the NT.
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The BLOOD also works WITHOUT a covenant.

Your false premises lead you to false conclusions.
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Biblical warning:

"Of how much worse punishment do you suppose, will he be thought worthy, who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace." Hebrews 10:29
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Nang said:
Biblical warning:

"Of how much worse punishment do you suppose, will he be thought worthy, who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace." Hebrews 10:29
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Written to the HEBREWS.....

Your understanding of the scripture is near zero.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Nang said:
Biblical warning:

"Of how much worse punishment do you suppose, will he be thought worthy, who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace." Hebrews 10:29
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Hebrews 10
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.



If Hebrews 10 is for you, why haven't you received the promise yet?
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Hebrews 10
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.



If Hebrews 10 is for you, why haven't you received the promise yet?
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What makes you think I have not received the New Covenant promises?
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Because you have need of patience, that after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive it.
(Assuming Hebrews is about you)
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What exactly is it you believe I must wait to receive?

Do you think I am patiently waiting for everlasting life, not having full assurance of ultimate salvation unto life?

Hebrews 10:37-39 puts that worry to rest for regenerated Christians.

Everlasting life is guaranteed to believers by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 1:13-14; II Cor. 5:1-5

The indwelling Holy Spirit of Christ is the "earnest" (down-payment) of my inheritance with Him. I have been sealed by the Holy Spirit, and so have full assurance of this truth. I John 2:24-27

The promise that I will bodily resurrect to "life" is the ultimate outworking of the New Covenant. John 5:29a
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
The promise that Hebrews is referring to, since Hebrews is about you.
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The New Covenant promises the Saviour, redemption from sin through His grace, justification through His blood, an inheritance of everlasting life through His death, etc. etc.

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Book of Hebrews emphasizes the High Priesthood of this very Saviour, who lives forever interceding for His elect people; a remnant chosen out of all nationalities; Jews and Gentiles. Rev. 5:9, 7:9, 21:24

The New Covenant is provided to the church; the spiritual body of Christ as promised from the time of the fall of Adam and Eve. Genesis 3:15

It is foolish error to claim that only Israelites receive this Covenant of Grace. All believers justified by the blood of Jesus Christ exist and function under the promises of this New Covenant that has done away with the Old Covenant of Condemnation and Works.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
Nang said:
The New Covenant promises the Saviour, redemption from sin through His grace, justification through His blood, an inheritance of everlasting life through His death, etc. etc.

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Book of Hebrews emphasizes the High Priesthood of this very Saviour, who lives forever interceding for His elect people; a remnant chosen out of all nationalities; Jews and Gentiles. Rev. 5:9, 7:9, 21:24

The New Covenant is provided to the church; the spiritual body of Christ as promised from the time of the fall of Adam and Eve. Genesis 3:15

It is foolish error to claim that only Israelites receive this Covenant of Grace. All believers justified by the blood of Jesus Christ exist and function under the promises of this New Covenant that has done away with the Old Covenant of Condemnation and Works.
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Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 are CRYSTAL clear on the TWO parties of the new covenant.

One is God.
The other is Israel.

It is foolish to claim otherwise.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8 are CRYSTAL clear on the TWO parties of the new covenant.

One is God.
The other is Israel.

It is foolish to claim otherwise.
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Nope, the other party in the Jer passage is the THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Guess who? The other party in Heb 9 interp of Heb 8 (instead of the D'ist interp) is that a body had been prepared for sacrifice instead of 'sacrifices and offerings.'

D'ism is obstinate and rebellious about the bible.

Just avoid D'ist interp and you'll see it clearly. That's why it is not about anything in Judea; but instead it is about the NHNE for all who believe.

God spoke to the other party of the new covenant and said: 'it is too small a thing to restore the fortunes of Israel; I will make you a light to the nations.'

These are all passages about which RD is too busy putting others down as foolish instead of commenting, for about 2 years now. What does that tell you?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Nope, the other party in the Jer passage is the THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. Guess who? The other party in Heb 9 interp of Heb 8 (instead of the D'ist interp) is that a body had been prepared for sacrifice instead of 'sacrifices and offerings.'

D'ism is obstinate and rebellious about the bible.

Just avoid D'ist interp and you'll see it clearly. That's why it is not about anything in Judea; but instead it is about the NHNE for all who believe.

God spoke to the other party of the new covenant and said: 'it is too small a thing to restore the fortunes of Israel; I will make you a light to the nations.'

These are all passages about which RD is too busy putting others down as foolish instead of commenting, for about 2 years now. What does that tell you?
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Made up.

And Nang still cannot tell us why she is need of patience, that AFTER she has done the will of God, she might receive the promise.
 
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