Does God have comprehensive free will?
- Thread starter Sozo
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God's character and choices preclude Him from doing evil. GIT says He would cease to be God if He did. This is half true. He would not cease to be the uncreated Creator God by nature, but He would cease to be holy and loving. We would now have a malevolent Deity.
This is similar to the theological debate about the impeccability of Christ. Could Jesus, the God-Man sin?
It is a moot point since God/Jesus never did sin and will never sin. Even if they theoretically could sin (my leaning), they would not sin.
This is similar to the theological debate about the impeccability of Christ. Could Jesus, the God-Man sin?
It is a moot point since God/Jesus never did sin and will never sin. Even if they theoretically could sin (my leaning), they would not sin.
Sozo
New member
godrulz said:
The bible is clear...
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"
God cannot even be tempted with evil.
"A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit"
Is God good?
"In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath, in order that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie..."
"Paul, a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago"
The bible says that God cannot lie, it is impossible. It has nothing to do with His choice.
"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
The bible says that Jesus could not sin. Unless you think that Jesus was not born of God.
Sozo said:
Huh? Believers can sin, but the sinless Christ did not and will not sin.
What is your reference and which translation? I John? I cannot find your verse. The closest I can find does not imply that Jesus is born of God.
Ch./verse?
While you are at it, refresh your memory on the significance of the present tense in Greek.
Do I have to be a subscriber to get a bold bottom line like you have? Thx for the free advertising.
SOZO IS A PAIN IN MY NECK
or SOZO IS A BOZO
I have been challenging Chandler, a true false teacher, to renounce the WT to embrace the Lord Jesus Christ. Why don't you use your time and energy with those who are true heretics?
Sozo
New member
godrulz... Have you lost your mind?godrulz said:
Based on the following verse:
"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God".
You said...
Then you say...
The bible says...
1 John 5:18
"We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him."
Are you claiming that the bible is in error?
Are you still claiming that Jesus could have sinned?
Sozo said:
5:18 anyone born of God does not continue to sin (NIV captures the meaning of the present, continuous tense). This does not mean it is literally impossible to sin (Christians commit adultery, right?). It means that believers do not habitually, continually sin just as they did when they were unbelievers. We know we have eternal life in the Son. He keeps us from the evil one, even if we sin and continue to look to Him for salvation. Other contexts deal with the issue of Christians sinning and the possibility of falling away/apostasy. For your interpretation (based on Greek grammar), Jesus would have sinned, but He no longer continues to sin because He is born of God. Jesus never sinned.
Commentators suggest that the one born of God keeps himself safe (with God's power) and that it is NOT a reference to Christ (who is never called born of God).
This is the kind of input that we frown upon in the "Exclusively Christian Theology" forum.allsmiles said:i would say that your god has done evil, according to the "good" book of course, and i would also say that within the confines of open theism he is definitely capable of doing evil. in fact, if half of what open theism entails is true, then i would assert that it's a distinct possibility that he has completely turned his back on his creation and now hates us and wishes he never wanted us.
thank the gods none of that poppy **** is true though
what a relief.
We set this forum aside to let those serious about Christianity discuss issues.
Truthfully, I believe that God, being omnipotent, has the power to not do evil. Whereas we, as humans, are not capable of never doing evil. Sometimes we do evil, and that just how it is. But God is capable of never doing evil, because He is omnipotent.
Lighthouse said:
Omnipotence is a metaphysical (being/existence) property. He is all-powerful in His creative abilities, etc. Righteousness vs evil are in the realm of morals, character, freedom. His moral attributes flow out of His attributes of personality (character, will, intellect, emotions). This involves His will and choices, not His essential nature (omnis + eternal/uncreated, triune Creator). His attributes of being combine with His attributes of personality resulting in His moral attributes (e.g. an omniscient being knows that love is the highest good of God and others, so His choices will always be perfect and righteous, not evil; His power is not brute force, but providential and responsive in His sovereignty). Whether one is uncreated spirit (God) or flesh and bones, it is not substance that determines vice or virtue, but volition and intellect.
Confusing metaphysics (essence/being/substance), morals (freedom, choices), and personality (will, intellect, emotions) blurs the categories.
The ability to not do evil does not come out of His ability to speak the universe out of nothing (metaphysics). It comes out of His ability to consistently act on truth and that which is right and good (morals/volition vs strength).
During the incarnation, Jesus' virtue did not come out of omnipotence (veiled). It came out of choice and dependence on the Father and Spirit. Demons are spirit beings as are angels. It is not their metaphysics (spirit) that determines their evil or lack of it; it is their rebellious or obedient choices that affect their standing and state. Continuous choices will form a nature/character/bondage, but it is the will, not the essence, that determines accountability.
Letsargue
New member
Sozo said:
---OOOOHHH ME!!!! --- It's not evil when God sets things up to do them. First God makes a Law that will allow even himself to do anything. -- But since Christ, all the Laws has been written and Even God Has no more Laws to use, to do any more. -- If God did anything now, He would be breaking his own law which would be evil. But if he could write a new law that would allow him to do something, then that would be by law and not evil.
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Letsargue said:
Huh? :dizzy:
God does not make arbitrary, binding laws for Himself. He is governed by His intelligence, character, and being. What He does is consistent with who He is, not just by Him making binding laws on Himself. He volitionally choses the highest good and what is wise and right, consistent with His wisdom and character. He is free to do what is right and best. Rex lex vs lex rex (King is Law vs Law is King) is a relevant study. Does a King make a Law because He has the power to do it...He could make an evil Law if He wanted to OR is there an absolute law of love and truth based on the King's integrity, nature, and character that He Himself will adhere to because it is the highest good and inherently right?
God is the most valuable, perfect, awesome being in the universe. His being is the basis for absolute truth and Divine Law, not just a whim of an omnipotent tyrant.
Letsargue
New member
godrulz said:
---Wrong again: godzulr;
---John 2:14 --“And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple”. – That rope scourge Christ made, he pulled down from the curtains of the temple, and there he defaced the temple himself.
---Matt.23:12,13,14,15,16. – (“Woe unto you”). That was the way to curse people back then, we would say, “To hell with you”, or “Go to hell”. – Woe unto you, means: “Great torment to you”. Christ taught, not to curse your brother, and lay hands suddenly upon no man. Christ scourged and cursed his brethren there, but it was not held to his charge. – 1 Peter 2:23 –“Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again”; -- He didn’t make it a habit to do that, it’s the life stile that is condemned not the single moment of anger.
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Letsargue said:
The text does not say that the cords were from the temple curtains. What is the basis for your speculation (it is not explicit in the passage).
Christ had the wisdom and authority to rebuke as He did. We can do so in His name, but should be careful not to attack Christians or others out of our misguided flesh.