Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

popsthebuilder

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What scriptural words is the word reprobate referring to?

Obviously, this is a question for Calvinists

Thanks in advance.

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What scriptural words is the word reprobate referring to?

Obviously, this is a question for Calvinists

Thanks in advance.
From the WCF

Chapter 3:

1. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: (Eph. 1:11,Rom. 11:33, Heb. 6:17, Rom. 9:15,18) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, (James 1:13,17, 1 John 1:5) nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. (Acts 2:23, Matt. 17:12, Acts 4:27-28, John 19:11, Prov. 16:33)

God's decree establishes the very free will of the creature from which the creature's choices spring from within all contingencies that may arise. God is not violating the will of the creature.

2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, (Acts 15:18, 1 Sam. 23:11-12, Matt. 11:21, 23) yet hath He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions. (Rom. 9:11, 13, 16, 18)

God is not peeking down the corridors of time to see what man will choose, if they persevere, or what they do and then decreeing based upon what He has observed. This would make God contingent upon man, merely rubber-stamping man's decisions. God is not a contingent being.

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels (1 Tim. 5:21, Matt. 25:41) are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death. (Rom. 9:22-23, Eph. 1:5-6, Prov. 16:4)

That God's glory be made manifest, some of His creatures are predestinated to everlasting life, and the others are foreordained to everlasting death.

predestinated - a deliberate positive act of God setting a preference upon another
foreordained - The certainty, from God's prospective, of comprehensive, determinate knowledge including every step along the way is a chosen aspect of His plan, which is not in any way fortuitous, or incorporated by accommodation to events outside of His control

Those foreordained to everlasting death are commonly called the reprobate.


Chapter 5:

2. Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; (Acts 2:23) yet, by the same providence, He ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently. (Gen. 8:22, Jer. 31:35, Exod. 21:13, Deut. 19:5, I Kings 22:28, 34, Isa. 10:6-7)

All that happens come to pass because God has ordained them to do so. God knows because He has ordained. What comes to pass does so within the liberty of man's will established by God and what comes to pass does so via second causes necessarily, freely, or contingently.

3. God, in His ordinary providence, maketh use of means, (Acts 27:31, 44, Isa. 55:10-11) yet is free to work without, (Hos. 1:7, Matt. 4:4, Job 34:10) above, (Rom. 9:19-21) and against them, (2 Kings 6:6, Dan. 3:27) at His pleasure.

The providence of God by which His decree is made manifest ordinarily relies upon means, yet God is free to work without means, above means, and against means.

4. The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God so far manifest themselves in His providence, that it extendeth itself even to the first fall, and all other sins of angels and men; (Rom. 11:32-34, 2 Sam. 24:1, 1 Chron. 21:1, 1 Kings 22:22-23, 1 Chron. 10:4, 13-14, 2 Sam. 16:10,Acts 2:23) and that not by a bare permission, (Acts 14:16) but such as hath joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding, (Ps. 76:10, 2 Kings 19:28) and otherwise ordering, and governing of them, in a manifold dispensation, to His own holy ends; (Gen. 50:20, Isa. 10:6-7, 12) yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin. (James 1:13-14, 17, 1 John 2:16, Ps. 50:21)

That which God ordains, including sins, even the first sin, are not based upon bare permission ("live and let live"), rather all that happens via the providence of God includes His bounding, ordering, and governing to meet His own holy ends. God's bounding, ordering, and governing is such that sin does not proceed from God, rather from man, nor is God the author or approver of sin.

For more see the exposition of the WCF here:
http://www.reformed.org/documents/shaw/


AMR
 

Rosenritter

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I think Paul was the first and only Apostle to be given new information about the new gospel of grace. Yes, there is John of Patmos, but does the Bible say that Jesus Christ appeared to John?

Revelation 1:17-18 KJV
(17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
(18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


So unless we know someone else who "was dead, and is alive for evermore" claiming the title of "the first and the last" from Isaiah, I would qualify that was Jesus appearing to John.
 

Rosenritter

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Why do MADists practically worship Paul?

Respecting and garnering spiritual educations from the early church fathers, is natural, wise, and encouraged for those who desire to delve into the rich truths and doctrines of their faith.

Why would you consider holding up theologians' portraits, to bring into remembrance their very existence, as well as their historical efforts that benefited and spiritually fed the Christian church down through the years, as something wrong or bad?

Actually, there is not a Protestant church functioning today, if it had not been for Calvin, Luther, Zwingli, etc. There would be world-domination by the RCC, if they had not lived and faithfully stood for biblical truths.

I cannot honestly answer about the near worship of Paul question. I think the emphasis is over placed as well, and I think Paul would protest as well. Wouldn't he say that he was glad that he baptized none of us? 1 Corinthians 1:14-16 KJV. Yet Paul was specifically chosen by God, given personal instruction and revelation, and was used to write the greater part of the New Testament. I think Paul would be a better choice for fascination than that chain of ancestors.

First, even accepting "benefited and spiritually fed the church" for sake of argument, yes, I think I would consider it something bad. Did they feed the Christian church? They may have fed the church something, but what they fed them is rather questionable.

You mention the Protestant Reformation. Do I think that God was behind the Protestant Reformation? Yes, I do. But he was also behind Babylon when he used them to take Israel into captivity, and in turn he brought the Medes and Persians, the Greeks, and finally the Romans into power. Alexander and Rome paved the way for the gospel in Greek, the Protestant Reformation broke the stranglehold of Rome and paved the way for the spread of the scripture across the globe.

None of this establishes that Calvin is a saint, representative of God, or a leader of his kingdom on earth, or worthy of honor, admiration, or emulation.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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Careful, Gros. She'll bring down the wrath of the Clavin god upon thee.

Wait...if you're elect but not saved yet, you're already safe. If you're reprobate, God's already damned you. So it don't matter either way.

Carry on, sir.

Thanks, my friend. I had a special fortification built just in case Nang and some of her cohorts decide to attack without warning.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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I really don't have a lot of resentment towards AMR, except for the fact he seems to have born without a sense of humor. I always wonder about people that lack a good sense of humor and a healthy portion of WIT.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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For those "Calvinists" who are overly concerned about "MADs" association with the Apostle Paul, Christ met Paul on the road to Damascus and subsequently gave him the "Grace Gospel" to preach to the Gentiles. It was Paul who was chosen by God to be the Apostle to the Gentiles. Hopefully, our friendly Calvinist detractors will, at last, recognize that "MADs" don't WORSHIP Paul, we consider him as "chosen of God" for a purpose.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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A reprobate is a soul left to the sentence of death which is the deserved wage of his sin.

Remember Nang, Christ died for the sins of ALL humanity. However, ONLY those who hear the Grace Gospel and place ALL their faith in Christ as their Savior will reap the benefits. I know you Calvinists reject the Grace Gospel as preached by Paul, however, it's still in force in spite of Calvinist false doctrine, false gospel, and false representation of the God of the Bible.
 

Clete

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"Justice" is synonymous with "righteousness."

They aren't quite totally synonymous, although they're quite close to it. The Jews do not have two separate words for the two concepts (or so I've been told), the context determines the exact meaning and the two words certainly can mean exactly the same thing but "justice" is often used in reference to a particular kind of righteousness having to do with the edjugication of punishment and/or reward for acts that someone is responsible for having done. And so while the two words have spheres of meaning that significantly overlap, they are not perfectly synonymous.


Do you have any intention of attempting to demonstrate to us that you do not believe in antinomy or do I get to call you a liar - again?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

TulipBee

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I didn't choose Jesus, man does not have free will, God choose me. I didn't find Jesus, I was lost not Jesus. If I have Faith, it is given by God. If I have life, God breathed it into me. If I confess with my mouth, God opened my lips. If I seen the truth of the gospel, God opened up my blinded eyes. If I heard the gospel's truth, God opened up my deaf ears to ear. If I walk after God, He gives strength to my legs. If I'm holding on to Him, he gives strength to my hand. If I loose my grip, He holds on to me tighter. God choose to save me before the foundation of the world, He purposed to bring my life and what He purposed always comes to pass. I had nothing to do with my salvation except my sin that I needed to be delivered from.
 

Clete

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It was conceived by the devil to make people lose faith in God. It is not humanly possible to have saving faith in a God that condemns billions to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

As bad as that would be, it's actually far worse than that. Calvinism's god condemns people for no reason at all.

“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)

“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)

“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)​

And that isn't just what Calvin believed, that is what Calvinism teaches. What you bring up is the equally unjust doctrine of Original Sin, which is another Augustinian doctrine that survived the Reformation and the Calvinists do indeed believe in the doctrine of Original Sin and that everyone is born evil and that their god loves some babies and hates other babies, etc but they do no teach that people are condemned because of sin as is clearly seen in the above quotations from one of their source documents.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
I didn't choose Jesus, man does not have free will, God choose me. I didn't find Jesus, I was lost not Jesus. If I have Faith, it is given by God. If I have life, God breathed it into me. If I confess with my mouth, God opened my lips. If I seen the truth of the gospel, God opened up my blinded eyes. If I heard the gospel's truth, God opened up my deaf ears to ear. If I walk after God, He gives strength to my legs. If I'm holding on to Him, he gives strength to my hand. If I loose my grip, He holds on to me tighter. God choose to save me before the foundation of the world, He purposed to bring my life and what He purposed always comes to pass. I had nothing to do with my salvation except my sin that I needed to be delivered from.

So the whole of your salvation was preplanned, preordained and predestined by your god but he left the thing that was going to cause you to need salvation in the first place up to you? I thought you said that man doesn't have free will? Aren't you a man (a human)? How exactly did you pull off this accomplishment? I mean, it's sure lucky for your god that you chose not to be good, huh? If you hadn't chosen to sin, your god's whole plan would have just gone right into the toilet!

Isn't it true that you also believe the same about your sin as you do about your salvation? You don't believe that you CHOSE to sin any more than you chose to believe because "man does not have free will". Isn't it true that you actually believe that the same god that rescued you is the one who set your house on fire to begin with?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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So the whole of your salvation was preplanned, preordained and predestined by your god but he left the thing that was going to cause you to need salvation in the first place up to you? I thought you said that man doesn't have free will? Aren't you a man (a human)? How exactly did you pull off this accomplishment? I mean, it's sure lucky for your god that you chose not to be good, huh? If you hadn't chosen to sin, your god's whole plan would have just gone right into the toilet!

Isn't it true that you also believe the same about your sin as you do about your salvation? You don't believe that you CHOSE to sin any more than you chose to believe because "man does not have free will". Isn't it true that you actually believe that the same god that rescued you is the one who set your house on fire to begin with?

Resting in Him,
Clete

BRILLIANT point!
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
I didn't choose Jesus, man does not have free will, God choose me. I didn't find Jesus, I was lost not Jesus. If I have Faith, it is given by God. If I have life, God breathed it into me. If I confess with my mouth, God opened my lips. If I seen the truth of the gospel, God opened up my blinded eyes. If I heard the gospel's truth, God opened up my deaf ears to ear. If I walk after God, He gives strength to my legs. If I'm holding on to Him, he gives strength to my hand. If I loose my grip, He holds on to me tighter. God choose to save me before the foundation of the world, He purposed to bring my life and what He purposed always comes to pass. I had nothing to do with my salvation except my sin that I needed to be delivered from.


You set yourself up as being special. The Pharisees also thought that the were God's special chosen ones. If you want to know what he thought of them read the 23rd chapter of Matthew. God does not impose salvation or damnation on anyone. If he did he would be unjust, if he is unjust that means that he is a sinner. Its not possible to have saving faith in your Calvinist God. What you have faith in is John Calvin, the heretic.
 
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