Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
popsthebuilder said:
Way to edify one another.

Antichrist and fool

Is there no humility to speak of here? Is there none to be had?

Curious; surely both of you are more versed than me in the Bible, so what is said of pride?

What about fear?

Peace

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Sometimes fool is the correct word. I don't use it lightly and it doesn't give me any pleasure in applying it. When someone calls both Paul and Jesus anti-Christ then they are indeed acting as a fool.

Contrasting, if one disagreed with statements of Paul or Jesus, or at least disagreed in their interpretation, one could always speak, and discuss. An approach sadly lacking in this particular thread. Or most topics on this entire TOL forum it seems.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
popsthebuilder said:
By the way; to me, from scripture, it is plain as day that the elect are converted and without sin at some point. That point not being after physical death either.

Am I the only one that sees this? If not, then why this whole yay continue in sin and vainly think you are safe(elect)? Someone is missing something.

How do people read the teachings of the Christ against the works of the hypocrites, the warnings against it and greed and pride, and then, not so quietly, be proud, greedy, hypocrites?

Just to be clear; I'm not calling anyone in particular any of those things. I am too a hypocrite.

Peace

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As far as God is concerned the whole world has been reconciled to him by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Jesus as God's new Adam and our new humanity has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and is Lord. Jesus's victory is our victory, because he was acting in our name and on our behalf.

This is why Paul wrote..."And you are complete in him" Colossians 2:10.

When God looks at the world all that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. All things have been reconciled into God by Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This great salvation that has been provided for us by Jesus Christ becomes ours by simple child like faith.

"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
 
Rosenritter

Rosenritter

New member
beloved57 said:
You teach that reconciled saved sinners wind up lost in their sins, a false gospel.
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Even supposing that he was teaching a false gospel, if we assume what you claim to believe, what would it matter? As I understand what you claim, nothing that anyone could preach could possibly trick or deceive someone that God had predetermined ahead of time would be saved, and it wouldn't matter what one believed, be it true or false, in the end, because it would inevitably line up with what was chosen before.

When you protest like that it seems that you don't really understand what you claim you believe.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Rosenritter said:
Even supposing that he was teaching a false gospel, if we assume what you claim to believe, what would it matter? As I understand what you claim, nothing that anyone could preach could possibly trick or deceive someone that God had predetermined ahead of time would be saved, and it wouldn't matter what one believed, be it true or false, in the end, because it would inevitably line up with what was chosen before.

When you protest like that it seems that you don't really understand what you claim you believe.
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I don't know what you talking about! A worthless post.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
That's a lie, them Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and shall be saved by His life Rom 5;10. The reconciled can never perish. You teach lies.
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So, you believe that heaven is going to be full of people that are enemies of God?

They are enemies until they receive the offer of reconciliation and not before.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
So, you believe that heaven is going to be full of people that are enemies of God?

They are enemies until they receive the offer of reconciliation and not before.
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Is Jesus an enemy of God ? They are accepted in the Beloved ! Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, because of the death of Christ. God sees no sin and rebellion in them, He sees them in Christ. Their sins and rebellion have been taken away, God doesnt charge reconciled enemies with their sin 2 Cor 5:19 ! Your theology is man centered not Christ centered !
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
Is Jesus an enemy of God ? They are accepted in the Beloved ! Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies, because of the death of Christ. God sees no sin and rebellion in them, He sees them in Christ. Their sins and rebellion have been taken away, God doesnt charge reconciled enemies with their sin 2 Cor 5:19 ! Your theology is man centered not Christ centered !
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You are in for a rude awakening.

No one will be saved that does not come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him.

You are in rebellion against Christ and his Gospel, you have not been reconciled unto God.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
You are in for a rude awakening.

No one will be saved that does not come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him.

You are in rebellion against Christ and his Gospel, you have not been reconciled unto God.
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So you are saying Just Christ dying for a sinner is not enough to save that sinner He died for, right ?
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Nothing, absolutely nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12.
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A person can only receive Christ in a way that leads to Salvation AFTER they have been given a New Nature.
Why? Because the natural man cannot discern Spiritual things!

1Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

~~~
 
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popsthebuilder

New member
beloved57 said:
So you are saying Just Christ dying for a sinner is not enough to save that sinner He died for, right ?
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Pretty sure you have to actually accept the atonement of Christ and the teachings and example. As in believe as if the truth and live accordingly.

You seem to not grasp this though.

Peace

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R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nanja said:
A person can only receive Christ in a way that leads to Salvation AFTER they have been given a New Nature.
Why? Because the natural man cannot discern Spiritual things!

1Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 3:27
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

~~~
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You have never received the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot reject what God has done for you in Jesus Christ and be saved.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
popsthebuilder said:
Pretty sure you have to actually accept the atonement of Christ and the teachings and example. As in believe as if the truth and live accordingly.

You seem to not grasp this though.

Peace

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That's salvation by works, by what a person does.Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies rejecting and hating God Rom 5:10!
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
You have never received the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot reject what God has done for you in Jesus Christ and be saved.
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That's a lie,those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies Rom 5:10!
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Nothing, absolutely nothing is yours until it is received, John 1:12.

You are determined to die in your sins.
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You make God to be unjust,you see sinners Christ lived and died for have obeyed the law fully through Him and are Justified

Rom 2:13

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. All sinners Christ came to live and die for are by this Obedience of His for them made Righteous/Justified Rom 5:19 !

Now if anyone of them perish in their sins, Gods Justice is perverted, and thats what you teach !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
beloved57 said:
You make God to be unjust,you see sinners Christ lived and died for have obeyed the law fully through Him and are Justified

Rom 2:13

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. All sinners Christ came to live and die for are by this Obedience of His for them made Righteous/Justified Rom 5:19 !

Now if anyone of them perish in their sins, Gods Justice is perverted, and thats what you teach !
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You are determined to go to hell.

You cannot and will not be saved until you receive what God has done for you in Jesus Christ.
 
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